DNA & STILL A BRICK WALL

[dwelch]

I have been searching for my Great Grandfather John Welch/Walsh on and off since I was 21 yrs old.
I am now 68.  I have all kinds of info on John here in the U.S.  Its like he, his wife Bridget Hennessy Welch dropped out of the clear blue sky into Delaware Co. IA.  There is no story for him before that.  All census says he was born in Ireland, cannot read or write.  However one of his children, now deceased, said he was born in New York.  DNA is not finding anyone of significance in Ireland or anywhere!  So many John Welch's immigrating here, I don't know which one is mine!  He was born approx 1823 and died in Dec of 1871 in Iowa.  Lots of info on him here, but have no info regarding Ireland.
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/39105428/person/322064324934/facts

If this link will not work, I would be glad to invite anyone, through their email, to view my family tree and John Welch
Thank you,
Deb Welch

[Lisa in California]

Have you tried looking for any siblings?

I believe your tree shows (apologies if the following contains errors):
Birth c1823, Ireland
Son’s birth in 1855, Greeley, Iowa
John’s marriage, 1862 Jacksonville, Illinois
Places lived 1863 onward, Elk and Greeley, Iowa
Children’s’ names include: Margaret A. and William Martin

Looking for possible siblings, could this be one?
Micheal Welch
Birth c1819, Ireland
1860 Elk, Delaware, Iowa census -
Michael and his family with first child, Mary Ann, born c1842 in Illinois

There is a tree for Michael on Ancestry with some of the above information
Michael’s childrens’ names include: Martin and Margaret
The tree shows Michael’s birthplace and parents’ names

I have not continued the search.  Michael could be a wild goose chase but I thought I would mention him.

ADDED: Coincidence that John and Michael were both in Elk and both supposedly were in Illinois at one point or could Welch have just been a common name?  Did the families carry on family names or were Martin and Margaret just popular names for the eras and/or region?

[Lisa in California]

…I have all kinds of info on John here in the U.S.  Its like he, his wife Bridget Hennessy Welch dropped out of the clear blue sky into Delaware Co. IA.  There is no story for him before that…

Again, perhaps you’ve checked for siblings (which could possibly provide clues about John’s family), but you didn’t mention if you have searched.

Repeating and adding to John’s details, from your tree:
Birth c1823, Ireland
1850 Lafayette Ward 1, Tippecanoe, Indiana
Son’s birth in 1855, Greeley, Iowa
John’s marriage, 1862 Jacksonville, Illinois
Places lived 1863 onward, Elk and Greeley, Iowa
Children’s’ names include: Margaret A. and William Martin

Nicholas Welch (I have not confirmed that the following is for “one/the same” Nicholas Welch)
1850 Lafayette Ward 1, Tippecanoe, Indiana - born c1820, Ireland, Laborer
1858 Morgan County, Illinois - marriage for Nicholas Welch and Mary Kernes
1865 Jacksonville, Morgan, Illinois census - two people 40 years and under 50

Were John and Nicholas related or just two people with the same surname?  Did John return to Jacksonville for his marriage to be near family? 

[dwelch]

Thank you for your quick reply!  I have a cousin who is also doing research and thinks the John in Tippecanoe is not ours!  I discovered the find and I don't know why she thinks that!  Michael was logged as John's father.  I didn't put that in there either.  Family and researchers had "contributor" rights. And why would he and Bridget leave their home in Iowa to get married in ILL after some of their children were born?
I have never heard of a Nicholas Welch!
And yes family names have been repeated!  Would my DNA lead to Michael and Nicholas though?
One little story I must tell you!  I and my family visited the little church in Westfield IA where Edward and his family settled.  Edward donated money for a beautiful stained glass window!  The priest there, as the story goes, insisted the name WALSH be put on the window and not Welch!
Why would Edward, grandfather, allow that if his true surname was Welch?

I have never found siblings of John's but perhaps you have!  You have made a great contribution to the search!  I thank you ever so much!  I will share this new information with my cousin!  Again, I am so grateful for your reply!

[Lisa in California]

You are very welcome; I’m glad you have new leads to search.  I understand your excitement; I’ve also been researching for decades and when Rootschatters mention new things, I am so thankful.

I will reply to your post as time permits.

One little story I must tell you!  I and my family visited the little church in Westfield IA where Edward and his family settled.  Edward donated money for a beautiful stained glass window!  The priest there, as the story goes, insisted the name WALSH be put on the window and not Welch!
Why would Edward, grandfather, allow that if his true surname was Welch?

1870 census: John and his wife were recorded as being unable to read and write.  Perhaps the name was Walsh at some point and census enumerators recorded it as Welch? As you most likely know, surname spellings vary - at this time, it might be difficult to determine the “real” spelling. Perhaps Edward had in his possession an item to provided Walsh was the more common spelling/actual name?

I have a Stuart ancestor (born c1815) who was usually recorded as Stuart but I’ve also found records with Stewart and Stuard.

Hubby just arrived home; I will try to come back here later tonight.

[Lisa in California]

…Would my DNA lead to Michael and Nicholas though?…

While I didn’t become interested in genealogy until I was in college, my mum and I tried to find one of her Irish ancestors when I was a teenager. (I have yet to find positive proof that I found his parents.)  . Anyway, by now I have gained experience searching for ancestors but as far as DNA topics - is there such a thing as a pre-beginner?  That would be me. 

Trying to answer your question, I suppose Michael’s and Nicholas’ descendants would have to take a DNA test and have their results on the same site where your results are in order for you to try to find a match.

Regarding my own DNA matches, I have three branches where I do not have any DNA matches (from your time frame).  Perhaps descendants haven’t taken DNA tests or perhaps not enough DNA was passed down to me.  Perhaps someone who really does know about DNA can reply to your question.

Also, if I am remembering correctly, I’m not too sure that Nicholas had any children.

One little story I must tell you!  I and my family visited the little church in Westfield IA where Edward and his family settled.  Edward donated money for a beautiful stained glass window!  The priest there, as the story goes, insisted the name WALSH be put on the window and not Welch!
Why would Edward, grandfather, allow that if his true surname was Welch?

Have you checked church records to see if there are any other yet-undiscovered Welch/Walsh names recorded?

So many John Welch's immigrating here, I don't know which one is mine!

I wonder if you might be lucky enough to find a list that might have John and his (possible) siblings?  Note: you most likely have looked but don’t forget to check ships sailing to Canada.  Also, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that you can’t find his sailing — I’ve found very few of my ancestors arriving in North America.

[shanreagh]

Was the name of the son who was born in 1855 Elmo?  Died 22/1/1924 in Westfield, Plymouth, Iowa?
The death certificate has his mother's name as Bridget Hennesey.  Is this the spouse who married in 1862?

ETA It may just be the differences in pronunciation but here in NZ we would say Welch and Welsh (the name of the people who live in Wales) were closer than Welch and Walsh. Some here say the ch at the end rather like squelch with the ch sounded out.  Anyway with not being able to read and write early arrivals were at the mercy of earlier folk who may have had trouble understanding their  accents and wrote names phonetically or the with the spelling they themselves were used to seeing. 

[Lisa in California]

shanreagh, Deb has the name recorded as Edward.  According to Deb’s tree, Bridget Hennessey was John’s spouse (marrying in 1862).

[shanreagh]

shanreagh, Deb has the name recorded as Edward.  According to Deb’s tree, Bridget Hennessey was John’s spouse (marrying in 1862).

I was quoting from the Family Search record that shows Elmo
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:DH27-9QT2

Elmo/Edward gives his mother's name as Bridget Henessey. 

Margaret aged  37 dies So. Jacksonville, Morgan, Illinois. father's name John Welsh and mother Bridget H

Then there is this death of a Julia
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7TP-YJ4
Her birthdate would be 1882.  So a long span of child birth/rearing from 1856.

It seems 'odd' that there are three children mentioned
Elmo/Edward
Margaret
William Martin


to find out as much as you can in Ireland generally it is good to have
religion
townland
birth order of the children of the emigrant......because the Irish had a naming pattern and being away often meant that these family names were precious

The Irish naming pattern is as follows:

1st son is named after the father’s father.
2nd son is named after the mother’s father.
3rd son is named after the father.
4th son is named after the father’s eldest brother.
 

1st daughter is named after the mother’s mother.
2nd daughter is named after the father’s mother.
3rd daughter is named after the mother.
4th daughter is named after the mother’s eldest sister.

So can someone put up the birth order of all the children please.  I do not have access to Ancestry. 



Her birthdate would be 1882.  So a long span of child birth/rearing from 1856.