Stuck on Finding the right cooper's???

[Jason Jase]

reply to post #8

I had the mother of Martha Winch born 1862 as a Mary due to a transcription error caused by a blotch on the census form..... but you are right Neale1961 it is Miriam .... that is where I got confused

So let me know if I got this right Benjamin Choat (who I have listed as my 3rd great grandfather) is not the biological father or Martha Winch / Choat and would not be DNA related to me???

If that is the case who is the biological father of Martha Winch / Choat (1862) ?

[Jason Jase]

reply from post #1 yes I am replying to myself.

update on Martha (1892)
I made a phone call an uncovered an error that was told to me. My mother knew Martha
 
"GrandAunt
Martha Cooper
born about 1892 (month, day?)  Ridgewell, Essex, England death unknown
married (date unknown?) to unknown husband birth? Death?
They had at least one daughter Edna birth? Death?
Edna married a Clifford (last name unknown but might be Parker?)

they had at least one daughter Who is in their late 70's and living so we will call them S. parker
S.parker had a daughter G who is in their 50's


Charles Cooper born  Abt. 1885 Ridgewell, Essex, England seems to be a ghost no one has a clue what happened to him.

[mckha489]

Sarah Matilda was a witness to the Holden/Cooper marriage in 1909

Can be found easily working in 1901 & 1911

I think this is her death

Deaths Dec 1982   (>99%)
KING    SARAH MIRIAM M    27JY1886    BRAINTREE    9   1434

Using that information you can find her marriage  and 1939 entry.

[mckha489]

GrandAunt
Martha Cooper
born about 1892 (month, day?)  Ridgewell, Essex, England death unknown
married (date unknown?) to unknown husband birth? Death?
They had at least one daughter Edna birth? Death?
Edna married a Clifford (last name unknown but might be Parker?)

Using Freebmd.  Search for Martha Cooper marriages in an appropriate time frame limited to Halstead  to start with.

Using possible husbands thus found search for children also in FreeBMD.
You will find Edna and at least three other possible siblings.
3 of which were born before 1921 so you ought to be able to find them in 1921.  (Although at least one died as an infant) There is a free search facility for that on FindMyPast so you can work out quite a bit using alternate searches.

Searching for Edna using her name and initial found earlier and suspected husband will find the marriage.

[Annette7]

reply to post #8

So let me know if I got this right Benjamin Choat (who I have listed as my 3rd great grandfather) is not the biological father or Martha Winch / Choat and would not be DNA related to me???

If that is the case who is the biological father of Martha Winch / Choat (1862) ?

Since Benjamin Choat married Miriam Winch in the Mar.qtr.1863 Halstead, Essex - just 2/3 months after Martha was born, I would say it is pretty likely that Benjamin Choat was her biological father.  Legally she was a Winch as she was born before her parents married but known as Choat.  If not his child Benjamin would have listed her as Martha Winch, step daughter (or wife's child) but in 1871 and 1881 she's shown as Choat and noted as daughter. 

Annette

[Jason Jase]

from post #20

"Deaths Dec 1982   (>99%)
KING    SARAH MIRIAM M    27JY1886    BRAINTREE    9   1434

Using that information you can find her marriage  and 1939 entry..."


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I do know that Sarah's middle name was Matilda not Miriam yet on the 1891 census transcript has her name as Matel which isn't even close. I have a photo of Daisy, Matilda and Martha all together. with their names written on the back. Yet what I have is that their was 4 daughters... yet only three of them where in the very fancy photo... hmm maybe one of them is a duplicate....I am going to clip all the census I have of them together to see if they only had three daughters.
------------------

I will see about the death thing after that...

[Neale1961]

Since Benjamin Choat married Miriam Winch in the Mar.qtr.1863 Halstead, Essex - just 2/3 months after Martha was born, I would say it is pretty likely that Benjamin Choat was her biological father.  Legally she was a Winch as she was born before her parents married but known as Choat.  If not his child Benjamin would have listed her as Martha Winch, step daughter (or wife's child) but in 1871 and 1881 she's shown as Choat and noted as daughter. 

I am not so confident that Benjamin was the father.
Martha was born Nov 1862, but baptised in May 1863. She was baptised as Martha WINCH, no mention of a father or the name Choat.

[mckha489]

I do know that Sarah's middle name was Matilda not Miriam yet on the 1891 census transcript has her name as Matel which isn't even close.

Please Jason, do use the free sources available to you.

Here is Sarah's birth. (Martha using CHOAT this time - it would be interesting, but expensive, to know if the variation in the name used is due to different people registering the birth).

COOPER, SARAH  MATILDA MIRIAM    CHOAT 
GRO Reference: 1886  S Quarter in HALSTEAD  Volume 04A  Page 557

So Sarah had TWO second names. 

I appreciate you must only be using census transcripts. The one that says Sarah Matel - if you look at the original is clearly Matil^{^}. 

She is Sarah M.M. in 1901
and Sarah Maria Matilda in 1911 (I expect the information on the form was entered by her employer)

And Miriam was also the name of another daughter as you have

COOPER, MIRIAM       CHOAT 
GRO Reference: 1888  D Quarter in HALSTEAD  Volume 04A  Page 565

[Jason Jase]

oh yes I use all sorts or resources. I have started my whole family tree with 4 names I can digress all about it but I only ask this chat as I said because I was stuck on certain points.

Anyway I will take a look at what you are talking about yet I did notice an issue.
let me explain and yes for this point I will be using only the censuses.

I will be listing the kids name, age at the time of the census, and calculated year born based on age

in the 1891 the cooper children are

Benjamin age 8  born 1883
Charles age 6 born 1885
Sarah Matil age 4 born 1887
Miriam age 2 born 1889
----------------------------------------
note both Sarah Matil and Miriam are on the same census as different people

10 years later
----------------------------------------
1901 census
Benjamin age 18 born 1883
Charles age 16 born 1885
Miriam age 12 born 1889
Martha age 9 born 1892
Daisy age 6 born 1885
------------------------------------------

I'm sure you can see my issue here the child Sarah Mitil born in 1887 is missing
now she could of died. moved out before the age of 14, been visiting somewhere else, been at boarding school or whatever.

Martha and Daisy being 9 and 6 wouldn't be on the earlier census.
Martha would also would not be mistaken for Sarah Matil being 5 years different.

-------------------------------------------
In the 1911 census living with their parents are

Benjamin age 28 born 1883
Charles age 26 born 1885

Martha age 19 born 1892
-----------------------------------------------
1911 census ED, institution, or vessel   69 Piece   2354
Miriam Cooper is married and last name changed to Holden
she is listed as being age 22 born 1889
-------------------------------------------------
ED, institution, or vessel   05 Piece   169
Daisy Cooper is a live in Nurse age 16 born 1885
-------------------------------------------------
Note all the ages and dates match up perfectly and are not even off by one year.



So as for now this is what I have and I can now take another look to Find Sarah Matil (Matilda) and take a look to find the the documents on her being spoken of...