William Barker born abt 1816 married in Wigan 1838

[Maiden Stone]

Ive just looked at William Barker and it was in 1861 that he changed birthplace from Wigan to Preston. Looking at all the others I can be sure that the enumerater did not just do a ditto on them. On all these census's William is in Wigan.

To clarify, was it Wigan on 1851 census, Preston on 1861 census and Wigan on 1871 census?
Did he answer Yes to whether born in county on 1841 census?

Added. Re-reading this thread, I've realised I mis-read Barker as Baker. In that case, ignore mentions of Baker baptisms &c. in my reply #7. 

[sadge]

Maiden Stone, just looked and yes on the 1841 census William says born in county, then on 1851 says Wigan, 1861/1871 both say Preston which I do not really get.

I did think at one point like many others that his father sas Samuel Barker but doubt set in a few weeks ago so sent off for his marriage certificate hoping it names his father and I was right to have doubts as it says James Barker Soldier. I know up to William everything is correct, now working out about his father and the Preston birth place change.

Many thanks for your reply, I did notice you put Baker and not Barker but just thought maybe typo error  so no worries.

Susan

[Maiden Stone]

I decided to send off for William's marriage certificate to see if it named his father which it did, it was a James Barker profession given as Soldier.


I found a marriage in Wigan in the 1790's and the place of marriage is given as Palatine, Wigan. Ive never heard of this before, could this be another name for Catholic Church or something completly different.

William Barker married when he was 24 and to a Mary Hurst who was 28. One of the witness's was an Ellen Hurst so assuming her sister, I shall be looking into this further today.

Was there no wedding witness from William's side of the family?

What was the date of the 1790's marriage and who was bride? Where did you find the record?

Do you know names of William's siblings?
Have you found baptisms for William's children? If they were at R.C. churches, who were godparents?

A street in modern Wigan is Palatine Close. A business in Billinge is called Palatine.

Another meaning of Palatine. The Palatinate was a German state. Some inhabitants (Palatines) were refugees in Britain and Ireland around 1700. Protestants made up the majority of the refugees. I don't know if any settled in Wigan.
https://www.exodus2013.co.uk/palatine-migration-into-england/ 

Wigan World website https://www.wiganworld.co.uk

[sadge]

It was William born 1817 Preston's marriage certificate I sent off for, he was married in 1818 and records showed register office but certificate stated St Mary's Chapel which also says Roman Catholic. This is in Standishgate. My dad and his siblings went to St Mary's Catholic school which is still there and the church next door although not sure if same one as in 1838.  Witness 's were Ellen Hurst who must be Mary Hurst side and Charles Brierley.

I do not have the certificate for James his father, I might send off for that one if they have it next week and see what it states. I did look up and in 1803 you had to be married legally in the \church of England then in the Catholic church which explains why I can find two records, I shall keep looking as the children will be in maybe in two but depends on where everyone was born, although can find quite a few in Wigan baptised at the Roman Catholic Church of St John's.

Thanks again

[lancsann]

I suspect you will never prove which marriage is for his father as the profession was not stated. The best guess to me is this one as he called his first daughter Margaret

marriage: 2 Feb 1815 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
James Hurst - (X), Parish of Wigan
Margaret Bibby - (X), Parish Of Wigan
    Witness: James Harrison; Saml. Vizard
    Married by Banns by: Thomas Pigot Curate
    Register: Marriages 1813 - 1816, Page 174, Entry 522
    Source: LDS Film 1885690

Marriage: 2 Feb 1815 St John RC, Wigan, Lancashire, England
James Herst -
Margt. Bibby -
    Register: Marriages 1806 - 1822, Page 319

Edit - sorry done it again - looked for hurst rather than Barker. Sorry
    Source: Original register at LRO

[Maiden Stone]

Reply #12
Typo in year of William's marriage. Should it be 1838?
The presence of a registrar was necessary at a wedding in a Catholic church after civil registration of marriages began in England in 1837. A Catholic marriage wasn't legally valid otherwise.
St. Mary's Catholic church was built 1819 and is Grade 2 Listed.
Historical background to the Catholic churches of St. Mary and St. John.
 "The Case for Wigan: Catholic Congregationalism in the Age of Revolution" by J. A. Hilton
https://www.nwcatholichistory.org.uk/assets/otherpublications/Wigan-St-Mary-St-John-23Feb2019.pdf
It's 2nd article. 1st is about Wigan Catholics during reign of King James.
Info on GENUKI about St. Mary, Wigan. Registers, incomplete, are at Lancashire Archives. There was a graveyard.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Wigan/StMary

I do not have the certificate for James his father, I might send off for that one if they have it next week and see what it states. I did look up and in 1803 you had to be married legally in the \church of England then in the Catholic church which explains why I can find two records,

Do you mean the record of the marriage in a church register?
A Catholic wedding ceremony was only a religious ceremony pre-1837. There may have been different witnesses at the 2 ceremonies.