Author Topic: HUMPHRIES Elizabeth Sarah (or Sophia?) Brighton 1856/7/8?  (Read 1919 times)

Offline Annette7

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Re: HUMPHRIES Elizabeth Sarah (or Sophia?) Brighton 1856/7/8?
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 03 September 22 17:05 BST (UK) »
If an Elizabeth Sarah was his mother on birth certificate and on his baptism why are you talking about an Elizabeth Sophia?   It makes no sense.

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Offline jonw65

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Re: HUMPHRIES Elizabeth Sarah (or Sophia?) Brighton 1856/7/8?
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 03 September 22 17:26 BST (UK) »
why have you now rejected that George and Elizabeth were her parents?

Their daughter Elizabeth seems to have died in 1851, age 17.
See Replies #7, #8


Offline TimCSS

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Re: HUMPHRIES Elizabeth Sarah (or Sophia?) Brighton 1856/7/8?
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 03 September 22 18:39 BST (UK) »
Little Nell: As I said at the start of this; " Elizabeth SARAH and Elizabeth SOPHIA are probably one and the same person. After John Terry Humphries the publican died his wife went to Southampton. When their daughter Elizabeth SOPHIA was at the school in Montpelier Road Brighton her address was given as  Southampton. (I have the actual address somewhere I think)
John Laing, the informant on the birth certificate, lived at 61 Montpelier Road Brighton. This address was only about a hundred yards or so down the road from the school at 'Belevedere', Montpelier Road where Elizabeth was living during the 1850s, and she is shown there in the 1851 Census.
On the birth Cert John Laing is only described as 'occupier', That wasn't entirely true though was it!
John Laing died at his Montpelier Road address in 1869; In his Will he left John (Laing) Humphries very well provided for and paid for his education, (we don't know where,) and accommodation with the Potter family at Brighton and Ringmer.
As she was only referred to in John Laing's Will as 'Mrs Potter' she took a lot of finding! Presumably the Brighton solicitor, David Black, would have had her full address at the time.
John Laing was from a Scottish family. It was a tradition in Scotland that when a child was born illegitimate, out of wedlock', the biological father's name would be given to the child as a middle name.
Annette7:
The other Humphries family weren't in Brighton by then and that Elizabeth had died.
As you see you can easily be misled into thinking you have the correct person when you haven't!
Does that cover it all? TCS.

Offline jonw65

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Re: HUMPHRIES Elizabeth Sarah (or Sophia?) Brighton 1856/7/8?
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 03 September 22 19:33 BST (UK) »
Hi
Where have you got Elizabeth Sophia's Southampton address from? Do you have records from the school? :-\
Here is the 1851 census entry for her at the Montpelier Road School, Brighton.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGJK-SQX

Looking at the original, it does look to me like E  A  Humphr(e)y, 14, born Southampton.
Surname is dittoed from the "G" above, who was 16.
Likewise, place of birth.
All girls, so is "G" her sister?

"G" and another girl are the eldest pupils at 16.
Unless "E" stayed on at the school in some other capacity, she would have left long before John was born in 1857. Is there evidence she was living in Montpelier Road later?


Offline jonw65

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Re: HUMPHRIES Elizabeth Sarah (or Sophia?) Brighton 1856/7/8?
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 03 September 22 20:33 BST (UK) »
PCC Will of John Terry Humphries, Licensed Victualler of Vauxhall Walk , Surrey
26 December 1833
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D260901

Wife is Sarah Terry Humphries.
Daughter Elizabeth Sophia was baptized 5 Dec 1832, St. Mary Lambeth
Abode Vauxhall Walk
Father Publican
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99XQ-PX2Y

Offline jonw65

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Re: HUMPHRIES Elizabeth Sarah (or Sophia?) Brighton 1856/7/8?
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 03 September 22 20:44 BST (UK) »
Possible in 1851 in St Andrew Holborn?
40 Red Lion Street
Elizabeth Humphries Servt 19 Shopwoman, born Surrey Lambeth.
Head is Charles Elden, 42, Confectioner.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGX6-V9V

Offline jonw65

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Re: HUMPHRIES Elizabeth Sarah (or Sophia?) Brighton 1856/7/8?
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 03 September 22 21:05 BST (UK) »
John Terry Humphries married Sarah Terry Whalesby, 8 July 1827, St. Anne Soho.

John Terry Humphries buried 29 Oct 1833, Tooting Graveney.
Abode Lambeth. Age 43.

There was a posthumous daughter, Sarah Terry Humphries, who did marry in Southampton in 1864.

John's widow Sarah Terry Humphries married Barnabas Phillips, 24 April 1842, St. Mary Lambeth.
Father James Whalesby (decd.), Eating House Keeper
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9X7-XXBZ

In the 1851 census they are in Vauxhall Walk, Lambeth!
Sarah's youngest daughter Sarah Humphreys, 17, is with them.
The Terry name has been recorded as Fanny!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGT3-N6L

So Sarah wasn't in Southampton in 1851.
The idea that Elizabeth Sophia Humphries born Lambeth (in 1832) was at the school in Brighton in 1851 just doesn't stand up :(

Offline jonw65

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Re: HUMPHRIES Elizabeth Sarah (or Sophia?) Brighton 1856/7/8?
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 03 September 22 21:57 BST (UK) »
Perhaps in 1861 she is Eliza Humphries, 26, Needlewoman, born Lambeth, lodging in Lambeth?
Her fellow lodger is Martha Whalesby, 67, Laundress, born Brentwood.
Both unmarried.

Looks like the same Martha (Walesby), 55, born Essex Brentwood, who was with Sarah and Barnabas Phillips in Vauxhall Walk in 1851.

Offline TimCSS

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Re: HUMPHRIES Elizabeth Sarah (or Sophia?) Brighton 1856/7/8?
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 03 September 22 23:23 BST (UK) »
I have before me as I write the 1872  Marriage Certificate for Elizabeth Sophia Humphries at Southampton to one John Gray. Her address was given as Orchard Street. However the age doesn't tie up hers being stated as 35 years. I know ladies would often reduce their age by a few years so I didn't worry too much about this. If the same person age should have been 40 years.I will go through the other postings in the morning. TCS.