Author Topic: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?  (Read 1446 times)

Offline TadlowNewell

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What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« on: Monday 12 September 22 19:52 BST (UK) »
You have been so helpful to me in the past, I though I'd try another 'hard nut'.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find out what became of one 'Mary Jane Treliving' (MJT) after 1861.

She was born 19 Aug 1843 in Plymouth to Joseph Treliving and Jane, nee Nodder. Source: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-Q796-YK)
She appears in the 1851 Census at 5 Jansons Place, Paddington, London with her parents and six siblings.
She appears in the 1861 Census at 32 Belvedere Rd, Lambeth, London, aged 17, unmarried, with her parents and two siblings.
By 1871 her parents, aged 61 and 59, are living with their son Alfred and his family. No sign of MJT.

So, after 1861 she becomes invisible, at least to me! Maybe emigrated, died, or married... Can you find her?

There are quite a few MJTs appearing in later censuses, and GRO records. Most, I suspect, are red herrings.
  • There is at least one Mary Jane who marries INTO the Treliving family - her brother James Tucker Treliving marries Mary Jane Gunton.
  • There is an 1863 marriage of one MJT to Thomas James Longhurst Manning(e) at St Margarets Westminster (i.e. next to Westminster Abbey), (see https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/171037575/person/412343265005/facts) but no subsequent record of them. I also draw a blank about where Mr Manning(e) came from or went to after 1863.
  • There is a 1911 Census entry of a MJT born Sheerness, living Norwood, London.
  • There is a 1925 Probate of a Huntingdon MJT.
  • GRO reports a 1931 death of an 89-year-old MJT in Lambeth area )i.e. correct age and location). This 1931 death is accepted by most Ancestry Public Trees but none provide a source, and none provide any information covering the 70-year gap between 1961 and 1931.


So, can a clever Rootschatter find any record for an MJT after 1861 which positively links with 'my' MJT i.e. quotes a Plymouth birthplace, or parents Joseph and Jane, or a Lambeth residence...

Thanks for reading.


Offline maddys52

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Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 13 September 22 11:29 BST (UK) »
There are a number of newspaper articles about Thomas James Longhurst MANNING and his relationship with Mary Jane TREVELLIN. He was charged with stealing a considerable amount of property of Mr Samuel Montague LAWRENCE. In the article it says that MANNING and Mary Jane were married without her father's permission and that she lied about her age. They married in 1863 and she says she was only 18, so born c1845. Mary Jane left MANNING due to his violence and she and LAWRENCE were now living together. It also mentions a Mrs Emma TREVELLIN, though doesn't say that is her mother.
eg:    Monday,  Oct. 30, 1865, Publication: The Times

Happy to send you a copy, though I'm not sure that this is your Mary Jane.  :-\

Offline Kloumann

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Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 13 September 22 12:46 BST (UK) »
The Sheerness one is on the 1921 census living in Lambeth on her own.

Treliving is her married name. 1911 census states that she is widowed.

Married to a William Treliving. 1881 & 1891 census give her birthplace as Devonport or Devon

Her maiden name was Mary Jane Polkinghourne. Married 1867, St Germans.

Offline TadlowNewell

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Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 13 September 22 13:27 BST (UK) »
Hi Maddys52

The Times article you found sounds interesting. Would you mind sending me a copy as I don't have a sub to BNA? Thanks for offering. My email is <removed>

This could be 'my' MJT as she is correct age, but like you, I am not sure (yet). Neither her mother or any sisters are named 'Emma' but she has two sister-in-laws named Emma (wives of Henry and of Frederick)




Offline maddys52

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Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 14 September 22 00:23 BST (UK) »
No problem, happy to send you a couple of articles, though you should probably remove your email address from your post (according to RootsChat rules to avoid spam etc).  ;)


Offline TadlowNewell

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Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 14 September 22 12:23 BST (UK) »
Dear Maddy,
Thanks for sending the press cutting. I need to check carefully, but the addresses mentioned are not familiar, and there are no other clues - such as a father's name - as to whether this really is 'my' MJT so the jury's still out. Maybe her fall from grace into prostitution might explain her later invisibility.

I have removed my email from my earlier post.

Thanks again

Klouman: Thanks for your work on the Sheerness MJT. I think she and her husband William come from another branch of the Treliving family. There were several in Torpoint/Devonport in the 19th Century.

Offline maddys52

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Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 15 September 22 01:46 BST (UK) »
Pleased to help.  :D Will keep looking, it's an interesting and perplexing problem.

Offline TadlowNewell

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Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 08 October 22 13:34 BST (UK) »
I have recently made significant progress on this topic, so felt it would be helpful for future readers to summarise what I now know.

The breakthrough came when one Bruce Simons in France pointed me towards the following information about MJT in an unpublished book on the Treliving family written in 1995 by Lynne Browning. On page 426 (see attachment) we find a transcript of her marriage record telling us that she wed Thomas James Longhurst Manning at the Register Office in the District of Westminster 31 July 1863. He was Age 25, Bachelor, Gentleman and his father, Thomas Allen Manning, was also a Gentleman. She was aged 21, spinster, father Joseph Treliving, retired tradesman.

The fact her father is named as Joseph, and her age of 21 fits with a birth date of 1843, convinces me this really is 'our' MJT. Note that in the court case discussed above MJT explains she was actually aged only 19 at the time of her marriage, not 21.

On the same page of her book Lynne Browning writes “According to her brother Alfred (H43) writing in 1879 she had no children at that time. Family information informs that she died at Knowle House, Knowle Road, Brixton, London on 21st October 1880 but the GRO Index does not show her death under Mary Jane Manning in that quarter of 1881. “

I then found (on FreeBMD) that MJT had in fact remarried in Lambeth in Q1 1878. Her husband was Thomas William Trodd. Using her new surname I could then easily find her death/burial record at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CXCJ-TG2M

Name   Mary Jane Trodd
Sex   Female
Age   37
Residence Place   Brixton
Address   58 Knowle Road
Death or Burial Date   25 Oct 1880
Death or Burial Place   Lambeth, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
Death or Burial Place (Original)   Lambeth, Surrey, England
Birth Year (Estimated)   1843
Event Type   Burial
Cemetery   South Metropolitan Cemetery

This record confirmed both the Knowle Road address quoted by Lynne Browning and is also perfectly consistent with the 21 Oct 1880 death date she gives.

I have checked GRO indexes and it seems that during the three years they were married they produced no children.

Thomas William Trodd can be found in the 1881 Census, held just a few months after MJTs death, as a lodger at 4 Chelsham Rd, Clapham, described as a Widower. A couple of years later, on 23 Aug 1883 he remarried in Stockwell, Lambeth, his new wife being a widow aged 28, named Jane Amelia Hugall. They can be found together in the 1891 and 1901 censuses. They produced no children, and Jane died Q3 1904. Thomas William, whose occupation was Stockbroker, lived on until 16 Nov 1931. His Probate tells us his career was very successful - he left £18,725 - but clearly he was far less successful at producing any heirs to leave his wealth to...

Last, I have failed to find out more about Thomas James Longhurst Manning.

That is as far as I'm going with this distant branch of my 'Nodder' family.

Offline maddys52

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Re: What happened to Mary Jane Treliving (b1843, Plymouth) after 1861?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 09 October 22 02:26 BST (UK) »
That's great to have that worked out. Sad though for Mary Jane, and her family.

A couple of mentions of Thomas William TRODD that may be of interest:

"TRODD - in loving memory of Jane Amelia, the beloved wife of Thomas William Trodd, who died Aug, 11. 1904"
Saturday,  Aug. 10, 1907
Publication: The Daily Telegraph


"Large Sum for Charity
Cask of Old Whisky as Gift ...
Mr. Thomas W. Trodd, Clapham-road, S.W., left property of the value of £18,277, with net personalty £17,120. He gave:
   £1,500, "the cask of old whisky in my cellar", 1 doz. champagne glasses with his initials on them, his plush dressing gown, and his astrachan-trimmed overcoat to George Lewis Hannoford, Old Broad-street, E.C.
   £500 to Spurgeon's Orphanage
   £300 each to Dr Barnado's Homes; the Waifs and Strays Society, Clapham; the Belgrave Hopsital for Children; and the Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
   £200 each to the Royal Blind Pension Society and the Dog's Home
   £300 to the Consumption Hospital, Brompton"
Monday,  Jan. 11, 1932
Publication: The Daily Telegraph

Can't see any notices for Mary Jane though.