John Biddiss and Mary Askew

[Neale1961]

William John BIDDISS born 6 Sept 1813, bapt 3 Oct 1813 St. George the Martyr's, Southwark (Parents John and Mary, Kent Street)

MARRIAGE 11 Feb 1834 to Elizabeth TAYLOR. St Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey
Witnesses John William Biddiss and Susannah Boyd

1841, 1851, 1861 census: whip maker

Children: George 1834,  William 1837,  Elizabeth Mary 1839,  James John 1841,  Mary Ann 1843,  Jane Elizabeth 1845,  Caroline Elizabeth 1849-53,  Emily Eliza 1851,  Albert William 1853.

William Biddiss died Dec quarter 1861 St Olave Southwark
(His widow Elizabeth remarried Apr 1872 to James THATCHER. She died Nov 1883)

[carol80]

Finally had a few moments to go over your Information. Thanks for taking me back another generation. That's great.

Reply #17 is wrong as Thomas John Born in 1843 did not marry Catherine Butler Ray.

John William BIDDISS Born 15 March 1811, baptised 14 April St. George the Martyr's, Southwark; parents John and Mary

MARRIAGE John William BIDDISS (bachelor) to Susannah BOYD (spinster)
28 Sept 1835 Saint John The Evangelist, Lambeth, Surrey
Witnesses: William Biddiss and James Green

1841 census: John Biddiss is a whip maker

Children:
•   Susanna Jane BIDDISS bapt 9 Mar 1838 St Giles in the Fields, Holborn (married 1858 to Thomas BENTLEY); died 1892 Southwark
•   John William BIDDISS born Sept Quarter 1840 St Mary Newington; died Sept Quarter 1841
•   Thomas John BIDDISS June Quarter 1843 St Mary Newington (married 1874 to Catherine Butler RAY); died Feb 1918 Wandsworth

John William BIDDISS burial (age 34)
15 June 1845 St Mary Newington, Southwark
Abode: Locksfields
(His widow Susannah remarried in 1846 to William CHUCK – Biddiss children appear in 1851 census with surname CHUCK)

My Father in law; Gordon Kennard Biddiss  1912 - 1996 died in New Zealand
His Father; Thomas John Biddiss  1874 - 1965 died in New Zealand He married  1) Maude Mildred Kennard in 1910 Guilford Surrey she died in 1924 in New Zealand  2) married  Sarah Marr Goodfellow in 1925, She died in 1971.
His Grandfather;  Thomas John Born 1845 married Catherine Butler Ray 1851 - 1884
His Great grandfather; James John Biddiss married Elizabeth Berry.
This is the problem with this family. They all use the same names for the children.
I must trace Thomas John born 1843 and see who his family were.
Most trees online have the wrong Thomas. I had to buy Birth and Marriage Certificates to get it right. My Father-in-law told me which ones to buy. Not sure which Thomas John died in 1918 as I have not got the death certificate.
To confuse things more there is another Thomas John born in 1875.
As far as I can see all of the Biddiss family are related.
My Late Husband and my Son have the middle name Kennard and the son I just lost had the middle name, Thomas.
Many thanks for all your hard work finding my family. I will see if I can take them a bit further back and put it all in book form and give it to my 3 children.

Carol Biddiss

[Neale1961]

Hi again Carol
Yes, I agree, all the same names across different families makes it confusing.
However Thomas John born 1843 is the son of John William Biddiss and Susannah Boyd.

birth rego:
BIDDISS, THOMAS  JOHN                 Mother: BOYD 
GRO Reference: 1843  J Quarter in ST MARY NEWINGTON  Volume 04  Page 332

The Thomas John who married Catherine Kay was a bricklayers labourer and father is recorded as John Thomas (sic) Biddiss deceased. Address 5 Bedford Court.

In the 1861 census he is a labourer – living with his sister Jane Bentley.
In 1881 census he a brickies labourer. Wife Catherine died in 1884.
In 1891 census he is a widower and brickies labourer. He lives in the Newington area.
He has some time in the workhouse in 1908 and in 1914.
He has sons Thomas John 1874 (was a soldier; Married KENNARD; emigrated to NZ), William Stephen 1877, and Charles Robert 1882.



There is no birth registration for Thomas John born with mother BERRY.

[Neale1961]

These are the Biddiss cousins (as best I can sort them). They mostly stayed in the rope making trade. They were living in the same area as your Biddiss family, who seem to go into whip making. Of course they use similar christen names for the boys.
This may ( or not) help to sort out all those names.

William BEDDESS bapt 23 Jan1782 Bridport Dorset (son of William and Catharine)
(Like his younger brother John, William was a rope maker, and also lived in Kent street)

1st MARRIAGE to Eleanor PERRY
23 Aug 1801, St Mary, Newington, Southwark
 Eleanor Biddiss Burial age 47, 12 Apr 1829

2nd MARRIAGE to Ann Jane HUNT
23 Aug 1829 St. Mary's, Lambeth

1841 -1861 Census: William was a rope maker, twine spinner, Kent St

William DIED 19 Aug 1866 Camberwell

Children of William & Eleanor:
•   William an infant buried July 1804
•   Mary Caroline bapt Aug 1810
•   William bapt Oct 1812 – married Dec 1833 to  Harriett SEELEY. Was a rope maker lived in Kent Rd and then Bermondsy (Children: William, Sarah)
•   George bapt Sept 1814 – married Sarah (Children: Fanny and Ellen) 1841 census is a hawker, living beside older brother William. Cannot find after 1841 census
•   Thomas born Dec 1816, bapt Jan 1817; Died Feb 1881. – married Dec 1834 to Elizabeth HARRIS. Was a Hawker and a Rope maker. Lived Kent Rd. Has father living with him in 1851 and 1861. (Children: Henry, Ellen 1839, Mary Ann 1844, Thomas 1846, John 1848, Caroline 1851, William 1853, George 1855).
•    Henry James born Dec 1818, bapt  Oct 1819  - 1st Married 1837 Jane SPINKS  -  2nd Married 1845 Elizabeth Ann STERRY. Died 1892 Southwark. Was a twine spinner living Kent Rd, Bermondsey, & Rotherhithe (Children: Eleanor Mary 1837, Amelia / Rosanna 1844, Henry Thomas 1848, Elizabeth Harriett 1850)

[Annette7]

I'm sorry, carol80, but Thomas John Biddiss who married Catherine Butler Ray, was not the son of James John Biddiss and Elizabeth Berry.

By 1861 they had had 11 children: William Mar.qtr.1838, Mary Ann Mar.qtr.1840, Elizabeth Dec.qtr.1841, Sarah Ann Mar.qtr.1844, Jane Dec.qtr.1845 (d.1847), James Mar.qtr.1848 (d.1850), John James Jun.qtr.1850 (d.1853), Maria Jun.qtr.1852, Emma Jun.qtr.1854, Henry James Dec.qtr.1856, Eliza Mar.qtr.1861.   Birth registrations on GRO confirm mmn Berry - no son Thomas John.

As Neale1961 has stated, in 1861 Thomas John Biddiss is living with his married sister Susan Bentley (she married husband Thomas in 1858 and stated her father as John Biddiss, Whipmaker, deceased.   In 1851, in Newington, brother and sister are living with their remarried mother (married William Chuck 1846) and both have been listed as 'Chuck' rather than Biddiss.  When TJ married Catherine he gave his father as John Thomas (deceased) but it should have been John William who died in 1845.

You refer to 2 Thomas John's born 1843 and 1845 with the latter being your man - however, there was only one Thomas John Biddiss and he was the one Jun.qtr.1843 Newington, mmn Boyd.  His baptism shows he was born 25/4/1843, bp.24/12/1843 Newington and his sister Susannah Jane bp.9/3/1838 St Giles.  (There was a brother John William b.1840, d.1841). In 1851 bc.1844 Newington, in 1861 bc.1843 Newington, 1871 (as Biddus) bc.1845 Newington, 1881 bc.1845 Lambeth, 1891 bc.1844 Walworth, 1901 as T J Biddigs (on FindMyPast) as bc.1844 Newington. So he seems to have got confused with his ca.birth year and place but all the census sightings I've listed are for the same man.  Can't find him in 1911 but perhaps in workhouse.

John William Biddiss was bp.14/4/1811 Southwark, son of John and Mary.  This takes us back to John Biddiss and Mary Askew i.e. John William and James John being brothers.   You'd just credited Thomas John to the wrong brother.

Annette





Thomas John and Susannah Jane are children of John William Biddiss (Whip maker) and Susannah Boyd who married 1835.   

[carol80]

Sorry I had to stop searching this line for a while. I will be back when I am able to cope better. Thank you for your help.
Carol

[carol80]

Many thanks for all your help with the Biddiss Family. Yes, I did make a mistake when transfering from paper copy to computer so many years ago. Thanks for picking up my mistake.
I have started from the beginning, putting the other trees away for now as they are confusing me as 1 is right and one is wrong.
Carol
I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong as I need my tree right.

[wivenhoe]

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