Author Topic: Looking for Martha, born around 1813-1815 in Llantarnam  (Read 1106 times)

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Looking for Martha, born around 1813-1815 in Llantarnam
« Reply #18 on: Monday 03 October 22 13:01 BST (UK) »
Fantastic finds Talacharn, that all looks very possible.

I have now found a baptism at St Alkmund’s, Duffield, for a Joseph Smith, parents Charles and Mary, on 12 Aug 1811 which fits better with his census births between 1810 and 1815 than the earlier one in Belper. And there is a Joseph aged 28 in St Alkmund’s on the 1841 with Charles (publican) and Mary, plus an Ellen Smith aged 24 (so wife or sister).

So could he be with his parents in 1841 while Martha and Elizabeth are in St Woolos I wonder.

The marriages fit for Joseph and while he was born in Belper on the 1851, 71 and 81 censuses, the 1861 does say Defford (transcribed on ancestry) but looks like Duffield to me. The only wrong thing i can see is where Martha from Llantarnam fits in (location wise).     
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Looking for Martha, born around 1813-1815 in Llantarnam
« Reply #19 on: Monday 03 October 22 13:34 BST (UK) »
Maybe Martha did not know where she was born, or made up a location; it happened. Could there be something similar in Derbyshire, that a Welsh enumerator has made a mistake with? If my theory is right, finding the birth name of Martha may not be possible; was Holmes her birth name or married name? Travellers did move long distances, even between birth and baptism. Many worked from Lancashire to Cornwall, and for some, they also ventured into Wales. Llantarnam is not far into Wales and there were ferries across the rivers.

Until reaching Hay, the places they visited, are mainly river based. Boat people were tough hard workers, taking goods as quickly as possible though the canal/river system. Most were heavy drinkers and fighters. The whole family would have lived on the boat. They also needed to eat, so selling fruit and vegetables as they passed suited both sides. Joseph would pick up large bags of vegetables from farmers. By the time Joseph lived in Hay, he was probably too old physically to mix it with those on the boats. The rivers were important carriers of goods throughout the country, with the Usk navigable to Brecon and the Wye navigable to Monmouth, though smaller boats could have gone further. It would have been easier selling around the streets of Hay and Talgarth.

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Looking for Martha, born around 1813-1815 in Llantarnam
« Reply #20 on: Monday 03 October 22 13:59 BST (UK) »
Thanks Talacharn, that is all great background. As Martha is not the birth mother i was only researching her for info (and wouldn’t have had all this extra info if i hadn’t posted). Will add the notes from your marriages post to my tree. Thanks again.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Looking for Martha, born around 1813-1815 in Llantarnam
« Reply #21 on: Monday 03 October 22 14:19 BST (UK) »
On the 1841 Census Elizabeth is 17, and 10 years later she is only 23.
1851 Census: HO107 . 2450 / 171 . Page 70
Elizabeth Weaver . 23 (c.1828) . b. Ludlow . Dressmaker
And - Relative to the Head.
Could she be a Weaver x Smith?


Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Looking for Martha, born around 1813-1815 in Llantarnam
« Reply #22 on: Monday 03 October 22 14:33 BST (UK) »
The 1851 appears to be accurate, as i believe she was baptised on 7 Dec 1828 in Ludlow, as Elizabeth Tipton, mother Harriet (one of Joseph and Elizabeth’s children was Harriet too). Harriet married William Weaver the same day.

Elizabeth is said to have been 23 (1828) in 1851, 31 (1830) in 1861, 43 (1828) in 1871, 68 (1813) in 1881 - odd too - 62 (1829) in 1891, and 68 (1831) on her death in 1899. All born Ludlow. Not found any link to Joseph but that ‘relationship’ is strange.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Looking for Martha, born around 1813-1815 in Llantarnam
« Reply #23 on: Monday 03 October 22 14:37 BST (UK) »
Harriet and William Weaver went on to have a number of children, including an Abednego - a new name for me 😀

There are some places named in both families….. Hopton Wafers, Cleobury Mortimer, Stanton Lacy, but not on the same census.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Looking for Martha, born around 1813-1815 in Llantarnam
« Reply #24 on: Monday 03 October 22 15:43 BST (UK) »
You beat me to it!

There is a tree on Family Search:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/L6C6-Y4X
It has Elizabeth: Death 28 Dec 1899 . Hay
There are 8 children of Elizabeth and Joseph some with death dates.
Also a list of children from Harriet Tipton 1802-88 and William Weaver 1807. Elizabeth 1827-99, Benjamin 1831-9, William 1834-36, Margaret 1834, Abraham 1835, Thomas 1837, Richard 1840-1905, Mariah 1843/3, Margaret 1842-1924, Abedengo Weaver 1846-1822, Susannah 1846.

Abedengo is a traveller name I associate with the Smith clan from the Midlands and canal people, though others used it. (For a different project, I looked at the Smith clan of canal people.) There seems to be a link to the Smith family and probably through William Weaver.

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Looking for Martha, born around 1813-1815 in Llantarnam
« Reply #25 on: Monday 03 October 22 16:17 BST (UK) »
Thanks again for all your help. I have messaged the chap on ancestry (have seen welshnev’s tree too) who has all the certificates inc Harriet Tipton Weaver’s death and the birth of Abednego in the hope that he knows more about the family (bizarrely I can’t see where / how he is related).
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Looking for Martha, born around 1813-1815 in Llantarnam
« Reply #26 on: Monday 03 October 22 16:26 BST (UK) »
WELSHNEV had not been active on Rootschat in over 12 years. I left a note on the other thread as he may still be receiving notifications.

The only William Weaver I can find in 1807 and/or Shropshire ties in with the tree:
Unspecified St Peter Diddlebury Shropshire
Baptism: 1 Feb 1807 . William Weaver
Parents: Samuel and Mary Weaver

Diddlebury is a village next to Craven Arms and 10-15 miles from Ludlow.

Marriage: Samuel Weaver . Widowed . Mary Bailey . Single
29 Sep 1788 . Munslow, Shropshire.

Munslow is less than a mile away from Craven Arms.

I still cannot make the link, but there are too many coincidences.