James Thomas Serjeant/Sergeant/Sargent

[Korowe]

Hello All,

New member looking for some help please.

I'm researching a James Thomas with surname spelling either Serjeant/Sergeant/Sargent from the Southwark and Bermondsey area of SE London. Census records show birth date from 1848-1855   Birth place Lambeth (1891 cens), Southwark (1881 cens) , London (1911 census), birth place London St Pancras (1921 census).

I'm looking for church records of marriage to a Caroline Ward (born 1853), her name is listed on the baptism entries for their children. The 1911 census indicates they were married for 40 years, so I'm looking around 1870 in the SE London area and St Pancras.

Caroline's surname was changed from Meakings to Ward for reasons unknown. Census data shows the family listed under this name but other church records show Meakings. Carolines siblings all used the Meakings name once adults. Caroline as the youngest continued with Ward. Her mothers maiden name was Mappley. 

I have written to the GRO and they could not locate anything but they would only search a 2 year period and I haven't been able to find anything on FREEBMD, Ancestry and Find My Past. I've tried all combinations of surnames and dates. Either records have been lost/destroyed or they never married/couldn't afford to marry.

I'm trying to find the parents of James Thomas...Through 2 distant DNA matches I have found a family whom I think they maybe but I don't have enough evidence. Would anyone else be researching this family or be able to suggest a better way to search or places to search. Any information or leads would be most appreciated as this is a brick wall in my tree.

I'm more than happy to share the link to my Ancestry Tree if that helps.

Thank you in advance and Kind regards
Julie

[maddys52]

Hello Julie and welcome to RootsChat.

For a start, do you have either of them in the 1871 census, ie are they married then or not? 

Modified to add:
Also, do you have all their children's births? I see on the 1911 they had 13 (8 living, 5 died). Do you when the earliest was?

[Korowe]

Thank you for the welcome and your reply.

I've been unable to find James Thomas in the 1871 but I've found Caroline living with her older sister and brother in-law, both parents had died. The brother in-law had same occupation as James Thomas a Hawker and their address was the same street (4 Eltham Place Southwark) as the street (8 Eltham Place Southwark) on the baptism record of their first child a son also named James Thomas born in 1873. 

I have only found 9 of their children. My great grandfather is their second son Richard Henry born in 1876.

[Neale1961]

Possible 1861 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M2-236R
The original is in very poor condition. (Transcribed as Leyland on Ancestry)
Fathers occupation could be Music Printer.
Age of son James could be 8, not 3.

Added. Next house - Turn the page and there is a Thomas Sergent, age 31 (Music Printer?) and wife and family.

[Korowe]

Yes I have this 1861 census as I think this is the family that he is from, but can't be 100% certain as I don't have his parents names from a marriage certificate or church marriage record. I have added this family to my Ancestry tree and marked them as Hypothetical for now until I do further research or see what Ancestry hints pop up.

[Neale1961]

Both brothers James and Thomas are together 1841 census, plus other siblings - occupation printers. In St Pancras.
father George 40 a cabinet maker, Mother Mary 40.

[Korowe]

Yes thats the same family all around St Pancras area of London. I do have 2 DNA matches that potentially tie my family to this family but I'm trying to find hard evidence that it is them. Hence the search for the marriage certificate.

[Neale1961]

….. but I'm trying to find hard evidence that it is them. Hence the search for the marriage certificate.

Yes, I understand what you are looking for. Sometimes you have to try going backwards and sideways to make progress. 

[rosie99]

Just posting 1881 census for information

RG11 / 522 f112 p20 - St George, Southwark
James Sargent 29 General Dealer
Caroline 27 General Dealer
James 7
Richard 4
Caroline 3
Elizabeth 9 months
ALL born Southwark