James Thomas Serjeant/Sergeant/Sargent

[rosie99]

There is a marriage for a Caroline Ward December Quarter St Saviour ref 1d page 80. Year 1869.

However all the other names on that page are from Bermondsey

2 women and 2 men Bermondsey also vol. 1d page 80

Only Caroline ward listed in italics for St Saviour No corresponding partner
Perhaps someone who knows more about the numbering system can help.

The original has page 8 not 80.  Freebmd has 3 other entries with that reference
Marriage Dec qtr 1869
Jackson    William Oliver    St Saviour    1d   8    
LAING    David        St Saviour    1d   8    
MALONEY    Mary Ann        St Saviour    1d   8

[maddys52]

Thanks Rosie, I tried yesterday to check the image on FreeBMD but my computer wouldn't open it, not sure why. Anyway, good to rule that marriage out. 

[Neale1961]

I have been trying to track the children of James Serjeant and Ann Murphy, following the death of their father in 1870.

I can’t prove my theory that the two boys James and Henry Charles were probably together in 1871 census. I cannot find either.
So I wonder if they were sleeping rough on the streets, or travelling as hawkers, and haven’t been included in the census.

Emily Serjeant   Burial 12 Aug 1859 Hackney, age 2 Ύ. Registration is in Holborn (She doesn’t appear in 1861 census)

James Sarjent age 18 - Possible workhouse admission 17 Mar 1870 Southwark

Annie Louisa Serjeant age 12 - In 1871 census is in Sussex with her uncle and aunt Henry and Jane Sarah Curtis

Henry Charles Serjeant
Possible prison record 27 Jul 1874 (10 days sentence Wandsworth Prison for gaming) Henry Sergeant, age 20 - A porter
1891 census Camberwell – age 40 born St Pancras – a boarder – a fish porter
1901 census Southwark – age 50 born Somers Town – a boarder – a fish carter
1911 census Southwark – age 60, a boarder living with a fish porter

[Neale1961]

I have only found 9 of their children. My great grandfather is their second son Richard Henry born in 1876.

Yes, I could only find 9.
Birth registrations for Children of James Sergeant and Caroline Ward / Meakings

SARGEANT, JAMES  THOMAS     Mother: WARD 
GRO Reference: 1873  S Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY  Volume 01D  Page 29

SARGENT, RICHARD  HENRY     Mother: WARD 
GRO Reference: 1876  M Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY  Volume 01D  Page 35

SARGEANT, CAROLINE       Mother: WARD 
GRO Reference: 1878  J Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY  Volume 01D  Page 34

SANGINT, ELIZABETH  HARRIET     Mother: WARD 
GRO Reference: 1880  S Quarter in SAINT SAVIOUR SURREY  Volume 01D  Page 36
   
SANGINT, HENRY       Mother: WARD 
GRO Reference: 1882  D Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY  Volume 01D  Page 38

SARGENT, WILLIAM       Mother: WARD 
GRO Reference: 1884  D Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY  Volume 01D  Page 41

SARGENT, MARY  ANN     Mother: WARD 
GRO Reference: 1886  S Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK  Volume 01D  Page 204

SERGENT, LOUISA  ANN     Mother: WARD 
GRO Reference: 1888  D Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY  Volume 01D  Page 35

SARGENT, ANNIE       Mother: WARD 
GRO Reference: 1891  J Quarter in ST SAVIOUR LONDON  Volume 01D  Page 35

[maddys52]

Yes, they are the only children I could find, confirmed by their baptisms from memory at St Stephens Southwark. Checking the parish registers I couldn't see any other possible baptisms. I wonder if she was including miscarriages or stillborn children?

[Korowe]

I have been trying to track the children of James Serjeant and Ann Murphy, following the death of their father in 1870

Oh wow, thank you so much for taking the time to research. I have been looking at the census data of the siblings of the childrens parents to see if I could find them there but with no luck, except for the youngest daughter Annie Louisa, although I can't find her in the later census data only 1871.

It is possible James ended up in the Workhouse in 1870 in Southwark, as the James in my family tree stayed in the area working as Hawker. And Caroline Ward was living in Southwark at the time with her sister after her parents had died. Their first child born in 1873 in Southwark. It is looking likely that neither could afford to get married.

I wouldn't be surprised if his brother Henry Charles joined him in Southwark. What is interesting is that James Thomas and Caroline Ward, had 2 son's one named Richard Henry and the other Henry. So possibly named after Henry Charles. Also Richard Henry had occupations as a GreenGrocer and a Fish Monger similar to Henry Charles being a Fish Porter/carter.

I was also looking for the death record of Ann Murphy but haven't come across anything nor is she in any census. I also checked the census data of her siblings but not there. Any ideas on where else I could look? I tried the GRO website with all variations of her name and possible dates but nothing is coming up.

[Korowe]

Yes, they are the only children I could find, confirmed by their baptisms. Checking the parish registers I couldn't see any other possible baptisms. I wonder if she was including miscarriages or stillborn children?

Thank you yes I was thinking the same but would there not be a death record of a stillborn child?

[Neale1961]

I wonder if she was including miscarriages ?

My thinking also. There are a couple of gaps between children where this could have occurred.

[Neale1961]

I was also looking for the death record of Ann Murphy but haven't come across anything nor is she in any census. I also checked the census data of her siblings but not there. Any ideas on where else I could look? I tried the GRO website with all variations of her name and possible dates but nothing is coming up.

No I haven't found a suitable death for her. I was then wondering if the marriage split up, and she remarried after James had died. I have not looked into this as I got sidetracked elsewhere ...