Author Topic: Looking to identify two coats of arms  (Read 2064 times)

Offline Littorio

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Looking to identify two coats of arms
« on: Tuesday 18 October 22 15:32 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone,

I'm looking to identify, or at least gather more information on these two coats of arms, depicted on a german or austrian painting dated 1530.

The first one should belong to the commissioner of the work :



The second is probably from a religious order :



In advance, thank you.

Offline Kiltpin

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Re: Looking to identify two coats of arms
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 18 October 22 23:23 BST (UK) »
Hello, Littorio. 

I would say that the second shield is most definitely Polish. Polish heraldry is different to all the rest of European heraldry. 

There were things called "Herbs" (not pronounced like sage or basil). These could be equated to Scottish clans. But there is a noticeable difference. Whereas some clans are one name only, the Herbs could have 50, 100, or more surnames in them. And moreover, they were not concentrated in one geographical area, but rather spread out all over the nation. One here, one there, two families in the next village ... everywhere.

The noble families would have their own coat of arms, as well as a herb arms. One shows the individual, the other shows the alliance. Herb arms almost always show the same type of symbols - a six pointed star; a crescent moon pointing up, down, left, or right; an arrow pointing left or right; A stripe; a zigzag stripe; a stripe with the ends cut off, and a few more that I cannot remember. 

OR 

They bear what we could call a masons mark. The most famous is for the Herb "Sas". It looks like a number 4, but the crossbar finishes in a small serif and the down bar ends in a very small circle. 

In your picture, the first shield, there is no crown, so I would surmise that the owner is a man of importance (lets say a mayor), but not of the nobility (Baron and above) and the second shield is his Herb. 

These things were important to them. Even today, about 400 years after the Herb system fell out of favour, my sister-in-law, who is Polish will proudly tell me that before her marriage to my brother-in-law she was a member of Herb "Abdank". 

Just as an aside, Ecclesiastical heraldry will always bear a cross, that is recognizable as a cross. 

Regards 

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

Offline Littorio

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Re: Looking to identify two coats of arms
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 19 October 22 08:27 BST (UK) »
Hello Chas,

Thank you very much for your very interesting reply, I am currently looking into it. Here is a picture of the panel, as it appears in the catalogue. We notice the two shields at the feet of the two 'main' characters.