Author Topic: French Marriage Contract from 1647  (Read 512 times)

Offline WillowG

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Re: French Marriage Contract from 1647
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 26 October 22 20:02 BST (UK) »

Offline manukarik

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Re: French Marriage Contract from 1647
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 26 October 22 20:29 BST (UK) »
I'm in now but going cross-eyed! It's been a while since I've had to look at such a long document in Old French. There are certainly a few references to the bride and groom to be, but so many names and their titles and positions, it is confusing. The old script and spelling don't make it any easier! Modern French documents are still very long winded!

I'm going to have to come back to this when my eyes aren't so tired, I'm afraid.

Clarkson, Tolladay, Prevost, Killick, Hicks

Offline WillowG

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Re: French Marriage Contract from 1647
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 26 October 22 20:33 BST (UK) »
Oh, that is quite understandable and quite alright! If you want to I can make a post tomorrow with what I already have, the parts with the titles etc. that I have already worked out. Thank you so much for being will to have a look.

It is confusing, isn't it? I did not think it at all straightforward who the groom and bride were ...

Offline manukarik

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Re: French Marriage Contract from 1647
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 26 October 22 20:56 BST (UK) »
You would think from the signatures that it was a contract between Henriette Marie & Charles, given that their signatures are so large and separate from the others, but that could just be a status thing.
Clarkson, Tolladay, Prevost, Killick, Hicks


Offline WillowG

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Re: French Marriage Contract from 1647
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 26 October 22 21:10 BST (UK) »
Yes, the two top signatures are "Henriette Marie R" and "Charles P" for Henrietta Maria, Queen of England and her son Charles, Prince of England (later Charles II). Their attendance in the wedding party definitely messed up our ability to figure out who the groom and bride were 375 years later *g*

Online joger

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Re: French Marriage Contract from 1647
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 27 October 22 10:46 BST (UK) »
https://gw.geneanet.org/lebelf?n=coignet&oc=&p=henriette+marie


From july the 25th 1644  Henriette Marie R(egina) was living in exile in France, then in Paris, where her son Charles joined her. Henriette Marie Coignet was the queen's bed maid.

Offline WillowG

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Re: French Marriage Contract from 1647 – Page One
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 27 October 22 12:06 BST (UK) »
Alright, this is as far as I got on my own:

1. [...]
2. [...] Mre Charles de Lux
3. sieur de Vantelet coner [conseiller] s Ma [Maître] d[']hostel du Roy e gentilhomme
4. ordinaire de la chambre prince de la royne de la grande bretaigne
5. assisté de dame Marguerité Courtin Sa mebe femme de chambre
6. [du lit de Leus?] dame Royne vefve de Mre Jacques de Lux [vivant?]
7. sieur [dus Vantelet?] aussy coner et Ma d[']hostel de Sa Ma[jes]tes [chulme?]
8. [...] de lus dame
9. royne [...] au cheau [...] pour [...]

What I got from this:
Mr. Charles de Lux, sieur de Vantelet adviser and butler to the King, and gentleman ordinary to the bedchamber of the Royal prince of Great Britain, assisted by Dame Marguerité Courtin, his mother lady of the bedchamber [something] to the royal lady, widow of Mr. Jacques de Lux [vivant = in life?] sieur [to Vantelet?] also adviser and butler to his Majesty

10. Jacques Coignet [sans?] sieur de la con [...]
11. gentilhomme ordinaire de la chambre de presens de [lus/luis = our?] dame
12. royne et damlle Elizabeth Garnier Sa femme de luy [...]
13. [...] aussy femme de chambre
14. du lit de lus dame royné de la grande bretaigne, Stipule
15. en ceste partie pour damlle Henriette Marie Coignet leur
16. fille pareilleur femme ou chambre du lit duelle dame
17. royne a ce presente et de son consenten [estant?] aussy de

What I got from this:
Jacques Coignet Sieur de la con [something], Ordinary Gentleman of our Royal Lady's Presence Chamber and damlle Elizabeth Garnier his wife, also a lady of the bedchamber of the royal lady of Great Britain, [Stipule = decides?] in this part for damlle Henriette Marie Coignet their daughter alike lady of the bed chamber of [duelle = both?] the royal lady hereby presents and with his consent [...] also

18. [...]
19. [...]
20. [...] du consentement de lady[?] dame [...] de monsieur le priner
21. de qulles son filz de Mre Louis de Lux seigneur de Vanteler
22. [...] coner et Ma d'hostel du roy [...]

What I got from this:
A lot of people consenting.

23. [...] de dame Francoise de Lux vefve de [...] Mre Charles
24. du Bernetz vivant seigneur den Arpantez Ma d[']hostel ee
25. Son altesse royulle oncle s tante du futur espoux de Mre Paul

What I got from this:
of lady Francoise de Lux widow of [...] Mr Charles du Bernetz in life seigneur den Arpantez butler to His Highness Royal Uncle and Aunt of Mr. Paul's Future Spouse

Who is Mr. Paul?

26. François de Bernetz seigneur [ducslier?] de Arpantiz aussy
27. Ma d'hostel de sach altesse cousin germain de Mre Pidir

What I got from this:
 Mr. Pidir?

28. des Essarts seigneur de Buisigny aussy cousin [...] de
29. dame Marie de Bernetz la femme de Messieur Courtin
30. [...] de Jean Garnier [...] de Beauregard e de
31. dame Francoise de Monbaudiac sa femme nourrice C.
32. premier femme de chambre de la reyne de la grande bretagne
33. [It de monsieur le Begue fresorier des bastiment du Royalie dus?]
34. futir espous

What I got from this:
Dame Marie de Bernetz the wife of Monsieur Courtin [...] by Jean Garnier [...] Beauregard and by lady Francoise de Monbaudiac his wife nurse and first maid to the Queen of Great Britain

Someone offering the future spouses a place to live. But who are these future spouses?

Offline WillowG

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Re: French Marriage Contract from 1647
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 27 October 22 12:16 BST (UK) »
https://gw.geneanet.org/lebelf?n=coignet&oc=&p=henriette+marie


From july the 25th 1644  Henriette Marie R(egina) was living in exile in France, then in Paris, where her son Charles joined her. Henriette Marie Coignet was the queen's bed maid.

Yes, but in this book:
https://books.google.com/books?id=iGBGSib6gDwC&pg=PA151&lpg=PA151&dq=%22Louis+de+Lux%22+%22Charles+de+Lux%22&source=bl&ots=B5o6_YU8ha&sig=ACfU3U1D7KGNx1jQVQwkAaWsKyLN7Vyfhw&hl=com&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwif2KDkhvz6AhUHjosKHSK1CmQQ6AF6BAgIEAM#v=onepage&q=%22Louis%20de%20Lux%22%20%22Charles%20de%20Lux%22&f=false

It says that:
Charles de Lux son Fils, a eu l'honneur d'estre Vice Chancelier de la Reyne de la Grand-Bretagne. Ils marierent l'une de leurs Filles au Comte de Schelay, qui est une des meilleures Maisons d'Angleterre, dont il y a eu lignee. Sa Majesté donna à Louis de Lux la Charge d'Ecuyer ordinaire de la Grande Ecurie, en laquelle il servit cinquante années.

Which I took to mean that Charles married one of the daughters of the Comte de Schelay.

Of course he could have married both, or the book is wrong, but I wanted to check.

Offline manukarik

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Re: French Marriage Contract from 1647
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 27 October 22 14:46 BST (UK) »
Wow - hat off to you WillowG!

Will look again and ask a French friend to look it over too, once  I get home.

In modern French (according to Larousse):

stipuler

(latin stipilari , exiger un engagement formel)

1. Énoncer une clause, une condition dans un contrat.
2. Préciser expressément quelque chose ; spécifier : La note reçue stipule que l'augmentation partira du 1er août.

(latin : To require a formal commitment)
1 = State a clause, a condition in a contract.

Thanks for sharing your efforts - it'll make it a lot easier to look through later.
Clarkson, Tolladay, Prevost, Killick, Hicks