When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?

[timmis1]

Thanks for that  Colin, is Frodsham very far from Barnston & Bidston?

[ColC]

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/CHS/Frodsham

Bebington, Cheshire is 14 miles NW of Frodsham, Cheshire

Barnston, Cheshire is 16 miles  W of Frodsham, Cheshire

Bidston, Cheshire is 18 miles  NW of Frodsham, Cheshire

Colin

[timmis1]

Its a difficult one, she is so young and from relatively far away. John would have been very much older.

[timmis1]

Hi Colin

Last night I revisited the Smith part of my family tree, and from the research you did on my question above you discovered two possible marriages for John Smith.

The first to Catherine Inglefield 1739 and the second to Mary Moss 1750.

As I recall the sources for the marriages where family search.

I had a quick look and there appeared to be not mention of any parents for any of the spouses.
Would you agree, have I got that right?
As I would like to go back a generation from John Smith, I thought looking at the marriage records may help ie they would give the father of the spouses or they could have acted as a witness.
If I have looked at the correct records and there are no relatives on the records for these two marriages, I may request from the Chehsire Archives a copy of their entries for these weddings from the parish records, hoping that a parent is on their records.
Uness you have any better ideas.

[goldie61]

It would be highly unusual to find the names of any parents or witnesses in marriage entries at this point in time.
There is no point contacting Cheshire archives.

The images are on findmypast.
Both of these marriages in the actual register just give the bride and grooms' names.
They are  both by publication of banns - ie , not by licence, which possibly may have given some more information about them, although still very unlikely to give the name of the father of the groom.

Catherine Smith was buried 27th Sept 1747 at Bebbington, "wife of John Smith of Lower Bebington".

There are several burials for 'John Smith' which could be him, none of which mention 'Lower Bebington'.

BUT, a Mary Smith was buried 16th Jan 1776 at Bebingotn, 'wife of John Smith of Storton'.
Storton is just a couple of miles west of Bebington.

John Smith was then buried at Bebington 14th Oct 1780 'of Storton'.

No ages given in any of these burials.

Interestingly, on the same day as Mary Smith was buried, 16th Jan 1776, a John Smith was married at Bebington.
He married Ellen Langley. He was of Babington, and she of Great Neston. It was by banns - the dates given as 31st Dec 1775, and the 7th and 14th of Jan 1776, so these were before the death of Mary.
Possibly this was John's son John born in 1753.
Even by this date, there are no parents' names given in the marriage register.
A bit odd he should get married on the same day as they buried his mother though!
Perhaps as they had had the banns read before she died, they thought they should go through with it anyway.
I see a Mary Smith was baptised, (just 7 months after the marriage), on 18th Aug 1776 at Bebington. Father John Smith of Storton. No mother's name given. Luckily the entry in the actual register says he is 'John Smith junior'.
24th Nov 1782, baptism of Lydia Smith, daughter of John Smith of Storton.
So the burial of the John Smith in 1780, must have been the elder John Smith.

[timmis1]

Hi Goldie

Thanks for your response, sorry I couldn`t respond earlier.
As with much of my family history the Smith side do give me a headache.
However I am unsure mine are from Bebbington, but I have sure that I have ancestors who lived in Barnston Common & Moreton ie Johnathan Smith, William Smith & Richard Smith, who I have mentioned before on this forum.
But I am unsure about any coming from Storton.
I have been able to get back to a John & Mary Smith who I found mentioned as grandparents at the Christening of a Betty Smith(born 1779) the daughter of Richard Smith and Ann Linacre from the Cheshire Parish Register Project and this was at Bidston, but before that I am unsure where they have come from.
I may have been casting the net to far to Bebbington.

Sue

[goldie61]

Bidston to Bebbington is not very far at all - about 5/6 miles 'as the crow flies'.
Google maps give it as 9 miles by road, but goes a long curved way round - obviously on today's roads.
At the time period you are looking at, there would no doubt have been other pathways and tracks which may have been more direct.

I see 'Barnston Common' you mention is now 'Whitfield Common' at Barnston.
This is only 2 miles from Storton.

Our ancestors did move around the countryside - especially if they were labourers and needed to find work, or came from big families, which meant they had to find new places to live.

[timmis1]

Thank you very much Goldie

I did later have a look on find my past at the possible marriages of John to Catherine & Mary on Find my past, they are indeed register entries. ( I found out that you can look at one or two things for free on the Cheshire Archives website using find my past)
Yes I am now aware that at around the time I am looking at ie early to mid 1700s there weren`t really entries for parents of the spouses unless by license.
Which obviously makes the whole search for previous generations more onerous.
You can tell I have not got very far back with my family trees to not be too aware of this.
I think what I need to do is get a map that shows all the villages around Barnston to give me a better idea of the possibilities of who could have met up with who and ended up in a nearby village.
I do get your point about people moving around in those days, well at least in the locality.
With respect to John Snr, I thought he had died in Bidston in 1758.
I know things will not be straightforward with a name like Smith.

Sue

[goldie61]

Yes an actual map is a really good idea Sue.
Google maps is fine, but it would be easier to get a feel for all the places if you had one in front of you.

People didn't just move locally either.
My paternal family lived just further east in Cheshire, in Macclesfield Forest, for several generations, when it was not the 'forest' it is today, but a hunting forest owned by the Earls of Derby, which included farmsteads, where they grew corn and raised cattle etc.
I hit a brickwall for many, many years with them at the end of the 1600s and thought I would never find them and that that line would end there.
After a long time, (probably 30 years!), I saw a chance hint on one of the genealogy sites. I did a lot of digging and found evidence that they had actually moved north over the Cheshire border from Staffordshire! The son of the family had taken a lease on some land in Macclesfield Forest - he was married with a couple of small children and his father was still farming the family farm in Staffordshire. Obviously time to leave home find his own patch.
So always look carefully at things you might find further afield than you had first thought.

Good luck. 'John Smith' must be very difficult to try and trace!