Author Topic: When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?  (Read 4179 times)

Offline timmis1

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Re: When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 04 December 22 10:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi Goldie

I have only been doing family history for about 10 years and I have to admit that I paid for a researcher to help me out with the Smith side of my family, however the pennies only stretch so far and now I am back on my own and not really getting very far.
But as you say some times you can come across things by accident that lead you back another generation or at least link things up.
Thanks for your help.

sue

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Re: When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?
« Reply #19 on: Monday 05 December 22 10:17 GMT (UK) »
I must have missed this post earlier.

There are 218 trees on Ancestry with Betty Smith, all but a few of which are incorrect. Most have her birth on 13th August 1779 and death on 29th August 1779, together with a few showing her birth and no further record.

She is actually my 4 x great grandmother who married William Jones on 10th February 1800 in Woodchurch as Elizabeth Smith. She was either Betty or Elizabeth on the baptisms of her children. Other trees are incorrect by having William Jones marrying Elizabeth/Betty Washington.

The record of 1779 actually reads: born on 13th August and baptised on 29th August.

I have 26 DNA matches with descendants of her parents, Richard Smith and Nancy Linacre.

I have not come to a firm conclusion about John and Mary, although most trees have Mary Moss.

David

Offline timmis1

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Re: When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?
« Reply #20 on: Monday 05 December 22 15:57 GMT (UK) »
DCB  that`s really interesting.
As I recall you have posted before.
Did you manage to get past John Smith, ie John Smith who may have married Mary Moss?

Sue

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Re: When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?
« Reply #21 on: Monday 05 December 22 16:33 GMT (UK) »
John marrying Mary Moss is a possibility, but I am not sure how to prove it, and there are other options.

Something else on the trees that I can't be certain about is the parentage of Nancy Linacre. The baptism of Betty also gives her mother as the daughter of Daniel and Margaret. The trees tend to give Margaret as Kenney, with a marriage in 1750, but I can't find one.

However I did find a marriage of Daniel Linigar, of Weaverham, to Margaret Harrison, of Great Budworth, in 1751 at Weaverham.

Unfortunately, I can't find a baptism for Nancy.

Regards,
David


Offline timmis1

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Re: When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?
« Reply #22 on: Monday 05 December 22 16:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi DCB

There is an entry for a marriage of a John Smith to a Mary Moss 1750 Bebington on Find my Past, but I don`t think that is what you mean by proof, would you mean a will or something similar?
The Cheshire Parish records are very good at occasionally providing details of grandparents at baptisms as already mentioned for your Betty, however they don`t seemed to have done this for any of John & Mary`s children, only Richard & Nancy`s.
I am very wary of using other people`s trees and they don`t always provide rock solid evidence.

Sue

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Re: When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 06 December 22 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sue,

I have been looking through the details of Richard Smith and feel more certain that he was the son of John and Mary Moss.

Most of the trees have John's death in Bidston on 15th August 1758. Looking at the images, it was Henry Smith who was buried on that date.

They also have Richard born/baptised in Bidston on 20th February 1749, but nothing on the images.

Richard's burial has his birth year as 1755, which ties in with a baptism in Bebington on 12th June 1755, son of John but no mother's name.

There are possible siblings: Mary 1751 and John 1753

I will keep searching to see if I can find anything else.

David

Offline timmis1

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Re: When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 06 December 22 18:20 GMT (UK) »
Thank you David

Yes that line of reasoning sounds sensible in that Richard was born in 1755.
The siblings would be named after their father & mother I presume.
I hope that you find something, as I am not coming up with anything.
Will look forward to your future posts.

Sue

Offline alexreg

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Re: When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 16 December 23 16:25 GMT (UK) »
Hello Sue, David, and others,

I too am descended from this Richard Smith and Ann (Nancy) Linacre. I have struggled researching the Smith side in particular, but would be glad to share you what conclusions I have reached, at least.

Richard Smith was undoubtedly the one born in 1755 in Lower Bebington to John Smith and his wife Mary. This is supported by the baptismal record of his child Betty, as you've noted, and also his age (65) upon his death in 1820. He died in Moreton in the parish of Bidston, which along with other facts I shall discuss, is an indication he was related to the Smith family of that place. Also note that there's a Richard Smith born to Thomas Smith and his wife Martha, who in 1785 married Martha Linacre, a younger sister of Ann (Nancy) Linacre, which suggests the two Richard Smith's may well be cousins.

John Smith, father of our Richard, was married twice. First to Catherine Inglefield (who was born 1716 in Bebington) in 1740 [N.S.], and they had three daughters Catherine, Ann, and Mary. John's wife Catherine then died in 1747, as you've noted. Described as "of Lower Bebington".

John Smith remarried to Mary Moss in 1750, but this is where every tree I've seen bar one goes wrong, in my view. As far as I can ascertain, Mary Moss was the widow of Thomas Moss of Tranmere in Bebington parish, who had died earlier that same year. They had married in 1736 [N.S.] by license, and her maiden name was Yearsley. Therefore we should say that John Smith married Mary Yearsley in 1750, and Mary was born 1704 in Higher Bebington. The spanner this throws in the works is that John Smith and Mary had further children Mary, John, and Richard, the last being our ancestor Richard born 1755.  This puts Mary Yearsley at 50 going on 51 when she gave birth to Richard. While this appears rather unlikely, the sum of evidence for me points to it being the case, especially considering that John lived until 1780 and Mary until 1776 without producing any more children. Furthermore, there is no other record for a burial or remarriage of Mary Moss the widow of Thomas.

Returning to John Smith, the question of his parentage is particularly tricky. There is no baptism record for a John Smith in Bebington, Bidstone, or even casting the net over a 10 mile radius, in the relevant time period (which liberally would be 1690-1723). However, I have some strong suspicions that he was related to the Smith family of Moreton, based on the following facts.

- Our Richard Smith had sons named William, Henry, John, John, Daniel, Richard (in that order). The name Henry in particular has no clear precedent in either Richard's mother's family or in Richard's wife's family, which suggests it may have been his father's name.
- There is a Henry Smith of Oxton in Woodchurch parish (sailor) who married a Mary Stanley of Storeton in Bebington, in the city of Chester (St. Michael and Olave) in 1721, by licence. The place of marriage is curious – perhaps one of their families did not approve? This Henry Smith seems to have been born in Moreton in 1698 to another Henry Smith, but was living in nearby Oxton by this point.
- I've found two distant DNA matches who descend from Jane Smith, who was born in 1722 in Storeton to the above Henry Smith and Mary Stanley. Storeton is notable as the place where our John Smith and his wife Mary later died, having previously lived in Lower Bebington. It's not at all clear what became of this family after, though it's possible Henry Smith and his wife Mary are the ones buried 1758 in Moreton, within a few months of each other. After Jane, there are no further records of baptisms of children.
- The Richard Smith who married Martha Linacre was the son of Thomas Smith of Moreton, himself born 1723 in Moreton, the illegitimate son of another Thomas Smith of Moreton and Alice Shaw of Birkenhead. This puts his roots clearly in Moreton, and could connect our Richard Smith with Moreton too. After all, Richard married a woman (Ann Linacre) from Moreton, and the family settled there.

I hope this is of some help to you, or at least food for thought. I'd certainly be interested if you have any more ideas about where and when John Smith may have been baptised.

Alex

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Re: When & Where did John Smith marry a Mary?
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 17 December 23 15:28 GMT (UK) »
I now have 39 DNA matches to descendants of Richard and Nancy, including two who have Jane Smith, b 1722, on their trees. However, they are not direct descendants.

Would it be possible to give the links to the two which you have, please? It would be interesting to see if I have a match.

Many thanks,
David