Author Topic: The marriages of EDWARD LLOYD of Berthlwyd, Montgomerieshire, Wales  (Read 16542 times)

Online DCB

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,494
    • View Profile
Re: The marriages of EDWARD LLOYD of Berthlwyd, Montgomerieshire, Wales
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 15 November 22 12:47 GMT (UK) »
The National Library has the will of an Edward Lloyd in 1696 but I can't see enough detail to confirm his identity etc. The search form:-
 https://discover.library.wales/discovery/search?vid=44WHELF_NLW:44WHELF_NLW_NUI&mode=advanced

Might be worth checking

There is also one in St Mary, Whitechapel. I can't make out the name of his wife, but his wife wasn't Elizabeth

David

Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 57,138
    • View Profile
Re: The marriages of EDWARD LLOYD of Berthlwyd, Montgomerieshire, Wales
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 15 November 22 13:49 GMT (UK) »
I did refer to the will in Reply #11, David. You must have missed it. 

There seems to be a problem with the Wills feature at the moment.

Add
- also a brief summary in the info I gave from my Bill Baxter folders (Reply #10).

Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

***Restorers - Please do not use my restores without my permission. Thanks***

Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 57,138
    • View Profile
Re: The marriages of EDWARD LLOYD of Berthlwyd, Montgomerieshire, Wales
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 15 November 22 18:35 GMT (UK) »
The National Library has the will of an Edward Lloyd in 1696 but I can't see enough detail to confirm his identity etc.

David

I've just  checked  Welsh Wills 1650 -1699 for Edward Lloyd, no Parish, no Diocese. 42 were listed. No wills for the area came up for 1696^. The 1665 one, previously mentioned, was the only one that seemed to fit.

*The 1696 one was St Asaph
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

***Restorers - Please do not use my restores without my permission. Thanks***

Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 57,138
    • View Profile
Re: The marriages of EDWARD LLOYD of Berthlwyd, Montgomerieshire, Wales
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 15 November 22 18:41 GMT (UK) »
After further searching, I think this is the 1696 record -

Quote
720   1#$aLloyd, Edward, Llangollen, Denbigh, Yeoman
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

***Restorers - Please do not use my restores without my permission. Thanks***


Offline Drayke

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: The marriages of EDWARD LLOYD of Berthlwyd, Montgomerieshire, Wales
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 16 November 22 02:18 GMT (UK) »
Yes, Edward Lloyd of Berthlloyd married Katherine Wittewrong dau. of Sir John Wittewrong of Harpenden, Herefordshire (High Sherriff of Herefordshire in 1658) and his second wife Elizabeth dau. of Thomas Myddleton Esq. of Standsted Montfitchet, Essex. However, you have the wrong Edward Lloyd as her husband.

Edward Lloyd's first wife was Dorothy Booker and had 1 son (Edward) and 4 daughters. His only son Edward Lloyd (this Edward married Catherine) had 1 sone (Edward) and 3 daughters. The latter Edward Lloyd's son Edward was the last of his line as he had a dispute with his father due to marrying beneath him to a daughter of a Merchant and moved to London.

As the story goes, when Edward Lloyd was asleep in bed with his wife, a knock on the door was heard and thinking it was a messenger from Wales with a message of forgiveness from his father he rushed downstairs, opened the door and was never seen again. As such no death date has ever been found for him.

When his father Edward died, the estate was divided amongst his 3 sisters of whom the Berthlloyd estate and mansion was eventually sold to Edward Lloyd ancestor of the Lord Mostyn family. Who then sold it again of which the Berthlloyd mansion was demolished, and the present farm built.

So, it goes as such:
Sir Edward Lloyd (high Sherrif of Mont 1629 and died 1666) married Ursula Salisbury and had seven sons and five daughters.
-His eldest son Edward Lloyd (died 1696) married first Dorothy Booker and had 1 son and 4 daughters.
--His eldest and only son Edward Lloyd married first Elvira Parry and secondly Catherine Wittewrong and by Elvira had 1 son (Edward) and 3 daughters.
---His eldest and only son Edward married a daughter of a merchant and seems to have been abducted.

You can read about the above and the ancestors of the Berthlloyd family here: https://archive.org/details/historyofprinces05lloy/page/124/mode/2up

Online DCB

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,494
    • View Profile
Re: The marriages of EDWARD LLOYD of Berthlwyd, Montgomerieshire, Wales
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 16 November 22 09:24 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks Drayke,

I can see links to my family further back.

David

Offline Gadget

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 57,138
    • View Profile
Re: The marriages of EDWARD LLOYD of Berthlwyd, Montgomerieshire, Wales
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 16 November 22 13:46 GMT (UK) »


So, it goes as such:
Sir Edward Lloyd (high Sherrif of Mont 1629 and died 1666) married Ursula Salisbury and had seven sons and five daughters.

-His eldest son Edward Lloyd (died 1696) married first Dorothy Booker and had 1 son and 4 daughters.

--His eldest and only son Edward Lloyd married first Elvira Parry and secondly Catherine Wittewrong and by Elvira had 1 son (Edward) and 3 daughters.


If I'm reading this and the refs correctly, Simon (the OP} is  concerned with the wives and offspring of the 3rd Edward*. Do we have dates  and locations for him as this seem seems to place him much later than the original info?

Having ploughed through Griffiths and other pedigrees for my Pulestons, I know that dates and names become muddled in some of the genealogies, so I'm always sceptical.

Gadget

*Add rather than the second Edward.


Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

***Restorers - Please do not use my restores without my permission. Thanks***

Offline Drayke

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: The marriages of EDWARD LLOYD of Berthlwyd, Montgomerieshire, Wales
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 16 November 22 15:59 GMT (UK) »
If I'm reading this and the refs correctly, Simon (the OP} is  concerned with the wives and offspring of the 3rd Edward*. Do we have dates  and locations for him as this seem seems to place him much later than the original info?

Having ploughed through Griffiths and other pedigrees for my Pulestons, I know that dates and names become muddled in some of the genealogies, so I'm always sceptical.

Gadget

I can't find the dates for the latter ones amongst my research as it is packed away somewhere. That said, the last Edward that was abducted was still alive in 1724 and in the below mentioned source is stated as being the great grandson of Sir Edward Lloyd and Ursula Salisbury.
https://archive.org/details/archaeologiacamb1867unse/page/260/mode/2up

Whilst I do not have an exact birthdate for Sir Edward Lloyd, his brother John Lloyd (born c.1613 -1671 and was Cannon of Windsor and Chaplin to Charles II in his exile) was age 19/20 when he matriculated from Oxford (according to Oxford alumni records) in 1632 and John was the fourth son of Jenkin Lloyd and Dorothy Walker with his brother Sir Edward being the eldest. This would place Sir Edward at being born around 1600 - 1605. This lines up with Oxford Alumni records showing Sir Edward as being admitted to the inner temple Nov 1619.

If like many males in the early 17th century, Sir Edward married Urusla Salisbury around the age of 25-30 then his son Edward (who married Dorothy Booker) was born around 1630-35. Edward Lloyd (who married Dorothy Booker) is stated in the Oxford Alumni records as being the son of Sir Edward Lloyd MP of Montgomery and probably the Edward Lloyd who entered the inner temple in 1653 which would have him age 19-23 which is about when most people are admitted to a temple per above.
https://archive.org/details/cu31924030498939/page/n169/mode/2up

If Edward married Dorothy Booker at the age of 25-30 then that would place the marriage date at around 1655-1660.

That would, per the OP, place Edward and Dorothy Bookers son Edward being born around 1655-1660 which would place him being born, if the latter 1660 date is used, 2 years older than Catherine Wittewrong's birthdate of 19 April 1662. It would also mean that he married Catherine at the age of 30 of even older.

If Edward married Elvira Parry in about 1680 Edward would have been around 23 and had all his children by her. I have understood that all children were from his marriage to Elvira though. (Could be wrong).

So, dates are as follows according to estimations from the afore mentioned sources:
Sir Edward Lloyd (c.1600-1666) married Ursula Salisbury about 1630.
-Edward Lloyd his son (c.1634-1696) married Dorothy Booker about 1656
--Edward Lloyd his son (c.1657-?) married 1st, Elvira in 1680 and (possibly) 2nd, Catherine Wittewrong on 7th April 1687
---Edward Lloyd his son of his first wife Elvira would be born Abt. 1681 (per your found baptism record) and was living in 1724.

:EDIT:
Dates line up as far as I can see if the source I posted in my link is to be believed. Now, the license record shown in the OP's second post show that Edward Lloyd was a widower and age Abt. 50 (apologies I didn't see the age in the license record before my post). This would mean that Catherine Wittewrong married Edward Lloyd (c1634-1696) after the death if his first wife Dorothy Booker (whenever that was).

It could be (and more likely looking at it now further) that given the amount of Edward Lloyds in this Lloyd family (David's are worse) that the author of that book confused them and showed his son Edward marrying Catherine due to the age difference.

So, I would therefore correct myself and say that Catherine married Edward Lloyd son of Sir Edward Lloyd after the death of his first wife Dorothy Booker and the reason why Catherines fathers consent was needed was due to Edward being abt 50 and Catherine about 27 a large difference in age.

Indecently and out of curiosity, which Puleston's are you related to? I ask because the Jenkin Lloyd mentioned above had a brother Edward Lloyd (not any of the Edwards listed above) who married an Ursula Owen of which her grandmother was Margaret Puleston daughter of Rober Puleston vicar of Gesford, Denbighshire, Wales.

Online DCB

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,494
    • View Profile
Re: The marriages of EDWARD LLOYD of Berthlwyd, Montgomerieshire, Wales
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 16 November 22 16:39 GMT (UK) »
One of the daughters mentioned married a Mr. Clun

Thomas Clunne, b, of St Clement's Dane, married Katherine Lloyd, s, ditto on 1st December 1698 at St James Duke's Place, Middlesex.

Katherine, wife of Thomas Clunne, was buried in Llanidloes on 7th May 1736.

Three children baptised in Llanidloes:-
Cordelia on 31st March 1703 of Berthlwyd
Margaret on 17th April 1705 of Berthlwyd
Catherine on 27th June 1711

David