Author Topic: Francis HOGAN, Born: 1839 Galway, Ireland.  (Read 4586 times)

Offline BAC3

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Francis HOGAN, Born: 1839 Galway, Ireland.
« on: Tuesday 22 November 22 19:44 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

The British Army, Worldwide Index 1861 (C/o FindMyPast) shows a Francis HOGAN serving as a Private in the 2nd Btn 20th Foot (East Devonshire).

Sadly, I have been unable to find further details which may/may not confirm he was the above.   His parents Father Timothy, Mother Catherine, migrated to Manchester where he was baptised in 1852, alongside his brother, Charles. 

Can anyone help please with any details of his army career if the same person.

Thank you

BAC3

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Francis HOGAN, Born: 1839 Galway, Ireland.
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 22 November 22 20:29 GMT (UK) »
Are you working forward in time from his baptism, or back from a descendant whose details you are more certain about? In other words, do you know anything else about the Francis Hogan born some time before 1852 in 1839 (presumably in Ireland)? For example did he turn up in any later civilian censuses along with his family and did he marry?

Was it a Catholic baptism? If it was then I think it less likely that his birth and baptism would be separated by more than a few weeks or months, since his mortal soul would have been in jeopardy during that time, and one assumes his parents were good Catholics so they believed the Church's doctrine on this matter, as they did get him baptised.

I think you could be following a false trial if you have only a single mention of army service for someone with the same name, and trying to make that fit 'your' Francis. Clearly if he was the soldier in the Second Battalion of the 20th Foot in 1861, he can't have been born in about 1850/51, as the Army didn't recruit ten year olds. However if a later census gives his date of birth more accurately than his baptism record appears to indicate, and it says he was a former soldier or an army pensioner, it would clearly make it worthwhile to try and find his service or pension record.

Afternote: Sorry, failed to read the title carefully enough! That's a very big gap between his birth and his baptism. My basic point about not trying to work back from the 1861 Army census, without any other corroboration that he may have been in the Army, still stands.

Offline BAC3

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Re: Francis HOGAN, Born: 1839 Galway, Ireland.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 22 November 22 21:35 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your response.

Another RootsChatter has confirmed elsewhere the details provided in my topic opener.   My only concern is confirmation or otherwise that he had joined the British Army around 1861.

BAC3

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Francis HOGAN, Born: 1839 Galway, Ireland.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 22 November 22 21:45 GMT (UK) »
I know you've posted on the Armed Forces board and are looking for details of his military record, etc.  However, I also have serious concerns about an Irish child born in 1839 only being baptised in 1852. I have seen cases of adult baptisms in Catholic records but that's been for mixed marriages when the non-Catholic partner converted (sometimes the baptism took place a day or so before the ceremony).

Added- baptisms of Francis & Charles in 1852-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L965-6HS7?i=259
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!


Offline heywood

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Re: Francis HOGAN, Born: 1839 Galway, Ireland.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 22 November 22 22:19 GMT (UK) »
The children were baptised CoE and birthdates annotated as you have now found.
The information is a bit odd.
 Timothy is described as a labourer of Meadow Street. (1852)

1851 2228 /16/25
Willis Place
Timothy Hogan, 36 yrs  bookkeeper
Jane 25 yrs
With Francis and Charles plus Thomas and Edmund both born Manchester.

1851 Edmund Pendleton Hogan baptised - parents Timothy, book keeper and Mary Jane. Address Willis Place.

Julia Hogan baptised July 4th 1852 parents Timothy, servant and Catherine. Address 8 Meadow Street.
On the same day, from the same address, there were baptisms with parents Patrick and Julia Hogan (2) and Patrick and Rebecca Hogan (1 baptism).

I wonder if these were older children too and second marriages or similar.

Just found
1866 marriage for Charles Henry x father Timothy, a clerk
1872 marriage for Julia - father Timothy, book keeper

BAC3
I know this is not what you are searching but added it for others.
I see your interest in Francis through a criminal record in 1857 and realise that this is not finding the right connection. Sorry.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Francis HOGAN, Born: 1839 Galway, Ireland.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 22 November 22 22:33 GMT (UK) »
Edmund Pendleton Hogan's mother's maiden name listed as Gallney according to GRO index.

1846- Mary Jane Hogan (mother Gattney)
1850- Thomas Huband Hogan (mother Gaffney)
? 1854- Bridget Hogan (mother Gantley)
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline heywood

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Re: Francis HOGAN, Born: 1839 Galway, Ireland.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 22 November 22 22:43 GMT (UK) »
Marriage of Timothy Hogan and Jane Gaffney -Dublin 1845
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1845/09291/5363881.pdf

He is a bachelor so no first wife, Catherine. Maybe just a coincidence.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Francis HOGAN, Born: 1839 Galway, Ireland.
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 22 November 22 22:44 GMT (UK) »
Just about to post that also, heywood, but marriage gives Timothy as bachelor  :-\
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline heywood

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Re: Francis HOGAN, Born: 1839 Galway, Ireland.
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 22 November 22 22:53 GMT (UK) »
BAC3,
Have you seen the second criminal record dated 26th July 1865
James Smith /Francis Hogan occupation Brass Finisher
Convicted Salford.
Brother Charles Hogan is named - perhaps next of kin.

It also mentions a conviction in 1862 - might this affect your military  record?
The other I saw was 1857.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk