Author Topic: Pen in which hand :  (Read 3782 times)

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Pen in which hand :
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 15:47 GMT (UK) »
Iain,

As you are an old soldier perhaps you won't mind me going off topic a bit.

As you know the SLR had a much longer stock than the SA80 and its ejection opening was thus further away from the face on the firer, meaning that it could be fired from the left shoulder without harm to the firer. Indeed, as my left eye is the dominant one, I found this position more accurate on the range even though I am right handed. The second factor which separates the SA80 from the SLR is the composition of the round of ammunition itself. Although the SA80 fires a 5.56mm round which is smaller in calibre than the 7.62mm of the SLR, the propellant charge in the SA80 round is proportionately much greater because the rifling in the barrel of the SA80 is much tighter than the SLR and requires more energy to cause the round to spin. This results in a higher muzzle velocity and a more energetic ejection of the spent case from the SA80.

Offline arthurk

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Re: Pen in which hand :
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 16:32 GMT (UK) »
Concerning Robert’s cross, it seems logical that the heavy stroke would be the first line.  ‘Satisfied’ that half of the signature is finished, then the pen relaxes with its final light stroke.  In the case of this cross, it seems unlikely that a right-handed person would have made his first heavy stroke transversal, instead of firstly pulling the nib towards him.

That's the way I'd write an 'X' as a left hander, but I can't speak for every left hander, nor do I know whether a right hander would never do it like that. This same question came up in a thread a couple of weeks ago:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=867329.0

I don't know anything about weaponry, but having just looked at some pictures of Hougoumont, are some of the windows wide enough for two men who are both right (or left) handed? Or have I missed something - which is quite possible in this case.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Pen in which hand :
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 16:39 GMT (UK) »
Oops, there's always at least one who is awkward  :-[  As a left-hander my X would be "top left to bottom right" and then "top right to bottom left".  :-*

Luckily for everyone, I know nothing about weapons.

Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
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Offline arthurk

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Re: Pen in which hand :
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 16:55 GMT (UK) »
Oops, there's always at least one who is awkward  :-[ 

Do you mean me?  ::) Or you?  :-\
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline SmallTownGirl

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Re: Pen in which hand :
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 17:02 GMT (UK) »
Another left-hander here.

Scenario 1: The person handing Robert the pen was most probably right-handed, and so would have handed it towards Robert's right-hand. As Robert couldn't write, he probably didn't know that there could be an option as to which hand to use (and certainly not as much as there is today), so he continued with it in his right hand and made his cross.

Scenario 2: The ink pot and pen were placed to the right or top/right of the document to be signed, leaving most people to pick the pen up with their right-hand and use it that way.

Scenario 3:  The nib was cut in such a way that a stroke one way would automatically look different to a stroke made the other way, so nothing can be inferred from one looking heavier than the other.

I'm sure there are plenty more scenarios, but with nothing but a simple cross to go on, the conclusion is most likely to be just guess work.

STG
Always looking for GOODWINS in Berkshire :)

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Pen in which hand :
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 17:14 GMT (UK) »
Oops, there's always at least one who is awkward  :-[ 

Do you mean me?  ::) Or you?  :-\

ME, of course.  In a number of local stores I am greeted with "Morning, Trouble!"

AND, I would never be so rude to a gentleman!  :-X
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline arthurk

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Re: Pen in which hand :
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 17:20 GMT (UK) »
Interesting points, STG. Some thoughts on each of  them:

1. This seems unlikely to me. Even if he couldn't write he would have a dominant side and know which side he preferred to throw things with, for example. I think he'd naturally gravitate towards that one if asked to make a fairly precise mark on a page.

2. Same, really - and the X doesn't look shaky as it might if done with the non-dominant hand.

3. This hadn't occurred to me, but you could well be right. And you might also argue that if the nib had been cut to suit a right hander, an unpractised left hander would make a much more messy cross than we see here.

As you say, we'll probably never get beyond guesswork.
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline arthurk

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Re: Pen in which hand :
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 17:23 GMT (UK) »
ME, of course.  In a number of local stores I am greeted with "Morning, Trouble!"

AND, I would never be so rude to a gentleman!  :-X

 ;D ;D :-* :-*
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline BumbleB

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Re: Pen in which hand :
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 23 November 22 17:32 GMT (UK) »
I'd agree with points 1 and 2 of the suggestions BUT point 3 - angled nib - that would point to calligraphy, where left-handed and right-handed nibs are available AND I would hazard a guess that they would not be used for general purposes.  :-\
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY