Author Topic: James William Burt died Liverpool Asylum NSW 1901  (Read 3405 times)

Offline RoserAncestors

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James William Burt died Liverpool Asylum NSW 1901
« on: Thursday 24 November 22 06:43 GMT (UK) »
Hello all, my Nan has a cluster of DNA matches on Ancestry connected with part of her tree that comes from the Kiama region on the NSW south coast. The only connection I can see between any of the trees in this cluster and Kiama is through a husband and wife who married there in 1860 and had a child there in 1861. I have been able to trace the wife’s origin but not the husband’s.

The wife was Louisa Green born on 29 March 1826 at Longborough, Gloucestershire, England. Her parents were Edward Green and Ann Marnes. The husband was James William Burt. He seems to have been born in London but I can’t place him in a family there or work out how he got to NSW.

James William Burt and Louisa married on 4 September 1860 at the Kiama district registrar’s office according to Act of Council 19 Vic Nos 30 & 34. Both residences were recorded as Fountaindale, Kiama. They were recorded as bachelor and spinster. Both signed. The witnesses were John Smith & Lackett. The registrar was W D Meares. No other details are found on the certificate.

They had four children (see attached birth records for the first three):
•   Louisa Burt born 23 June 1861 at Terry’s Meadows, Kiama;
•   James William Burt born 3 August 1862 at Chambers Street, Glebe;
•   Edward Burt born 19 January 1864 at Cooloongolook River, Cape Hawke; and
•   Sarah Jane Burt registered 1865 in the Port Stephens district.

The wife Louisa Burt née Green died in 1865 in the Port Stephens district aged about 39. In 1868 at least three of the children were placed in the Randwick children’s asylum (see attached register). At this time a warrant was issued for the husband James’ arrest. The NSW police gazette of 23 December 1868 states that, “A warrant has been issued by the Sydney Bench for the arrest of James Burt, charged with deserting his infant child, Louisa, leaving it without the means of support. Burt is about 45 years of age, dark complexion, dark hair; dressed in blue serge jumper; a shingle-splitter. Supposed to have gone to Raymond Terrace. [Warrant has since been cancelled.]”

The husband James William Burt died on 18 May 1901 at the Liverpool asylum with his age recorded as 82 (death certificate transcript attached).

In the last years of James’ life, he was an inmate of Liverpool asylum a number of times. His religion was recorded as unbeliever, sceptic and atheist (register attached). It states that he arrived in NSW on the Lady Kennaway in 1840. Another asylum record gives his arrival ship as the Tamar in 1856 (without other detail). I cannot find any record of a James Burt on any voyages of those ships. I cannot find any record of a James Burt/Caroline Petworth marriage in England (his death certificate records this London marriage aged 25 with 6 deceased male issue and 1 deceased female issue). I cannot identify James in England at all. I would love to be able to, so I can then trace his ancestry for a couple of generations and see if my Nan has DNA matches.

Any assistance identifying James’s arrival in NSW or his family back in England would be very much appreciated as I am struggling here.

Offline shume

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Re: James William Burt died Liverpool Asylum NSW 1901
« Reply #1 on: Friday 25 November 22 05:38 GMT (UK) »
My first reaction to this enquiry is that some of the information on JWB death certificate is unreliable.
This is very common as the info is only as accurate as the family or informant knows.
There is no mention of the marriage to Louisa and the 4 chn still living from that. His medical condition of Senile Debility encompasses dementia and may explain 2 shipping voyages, 6 male chn 1 female deceased and a wife named Caroline ? Petworth.
There is a tree on Ancestry with some info on JWB but it is not sourced.
Have  you tried to trace the male chn of JWB?
HUME: Fermanagh, Donegal,Sligo,Australia
PASFIELD: Essex, London
SHAW/STANLEY: Co Waterford,Ireland, Australia

Offline sparrett

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Re: James William Burt died Liverpool Asylum NSW 1901
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 26 November 22 07:58 GMT (UK) »

Hi,
The DC of James BURT and the entries for the Randwick Asylum don't give a middle initial or the name William. However I would be satisfied it was William as it appears on the the birth Certificate where he himself was informant.

The information about the second marriage (to Louisa GREEEN) and the list of children of the union was given in 1894 as this tallies with the birth dates and the ages as they would be in 1894.
It is accurate information and I am of the thought that the information came from one of the offspring at the time who was familiar with the ages of self and siblings.

Six or seven years later, at the death of James BURT, the registrar chose to use only part of the information held in that register--Details of the first marriage, while ignoring the more recent union.
Odd!

I do note that he was interred as a pauper at Liverpool Cemetery, so there was clearly not family around to offer either finances for burial or information about the deceased.

The information about the first marriage, which I do suspect was a reality, possibly came as a family recollection offered- with inaccuracies- at the 1894 admittance to Randwick.

To say that all 7 children from that union as well as wife, were deceased is rather emphatic.

We might question whether it was really just a statement of convenience to obscure ignorance or to put the whole family out of the picture.

It is very frustrating for you in your quest to find the DNA line and my thoughts are probably not much help.
Sue

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Online maddys52

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Re: James William Burt died Liverpool Asylum NSW 1901
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 26 November 22 08:50 GMT (UK) »
From what I can see, the Lady Kennaway arrived Sydney in 1841 with 256 immigrants. (There are other voyages too, including convict arrivals.)  I think the Tamar was a local steamer that travelled between Sydney and Twofold Bay, certainly in 1856. Perhaps James William BURT arrived on the Lady Kennaway, but later was a passenger on the Tamar merely travelling in NSW, but answering question "how and when did you arrive in Sydney?"