Francis W Brien

[DCS]

I know you all like a mystery so here's another one for you.  In the 1901 census we have

Francis W Brien b.1840 Newington dock labourer living in Bale Street
Jane Brien  wife  b.1844 Bethnal Green
George Brien b.1886 son
Francis G Wheatley grandson b.1889
Edith McDonald b.1892 Granddaughter Stepney

In 1911 census
Edith M Donald niece age 19 b.1892 living at 32 Bale Street with
John Henry Brien b.1873 Ely Terrace Mile End
Emma Brien wife b.1879
Sidney Winston Brien b.1909 son Ession St Stepney
Mrs Jane Brien widow 1844 Bethnal Green mother

So Francis Brien married Jane Griffiths Whitechapel 1865 but in all the censuses from 1871 to 1891 Edith brien, who we think was born 1865 in Bethnal Green, isn't mentioned. Her birth details/ certificate can't be found.  Can anyone find her connection to Francis W Brien snr?
Edith Brien married George Wheatley 1885
Edith Wheatley married John McDonald in Mile End 1891

many thanks

[LizzieW]

Have you checked that Edith Brien born 1865 wasn't born before her parents were married, so her birth might be registered as Griffiths and not Brien.

Have you got the marriage cert for Edith for her marriage to George Wheatley, that might give her father's name.

[heywood]

Do you have birth registrations for Sophia, abt 1866 and Eliza abt 1868 ?

[DCS]

Do you have birth registrations for Sophia, abt 1866 and Eliza abt 1868 ?

no can't seem to find any = maybe he was married before but we don't know who.

[DCS]

Have you checked that Edith Brien born 1865 wasn't born before her parents were married, so her birth might be registered as Griffiths and not Brien.

Have you got the marriage cert for Edith for her marriage to George Wheatley, that might give her father's name.

i've checked Edith Griffiths - couldn't find anything.  Jane might have been married before. 

I will have to see if we have the marriage cert fir Edith and Wheatley but i think it said Frank Brien

[ciderdrinker]

Good Morning
The 1885 marriage for Edith Brien is at Holy Trinity Brompton 11 Oct 1885
George Wheatley bach polisher 12 Queens Gardens Brompton William polisher
Edith Brien spinster  same address father Francis Brien clerk
wit William and Emily Ball

16 Feb 1891 St Paul Bow Common
John MacDonald 30 bach tin cannister maker 12 Bloomfield St John painter
Edith Wheatley 26 widow 45 Canal Road Frank Brien cooper
wit Jane Brien (I'm guessing her mother)and George Twinner

1891 census 32 Bale St Mile End Old town
John MacDonald 26 tin plate worker Scotland
Edith 26 tailoress Stepney
Frank Wheatley step son 2 Stepney

A possible entry 1939 gives us Edith Jane MacDonald widow born 22 Sept 1865

It looks as though Edith is Francis's eldest daughter .
I still can't find a birth or baptism though
Births Registrations  I can see -
Francis William Mar qtr 1870 Mile End Old Town
John Henry Dec qtr 1872
Ellen Matilda Dec 1875
Mary Ann Mar 1878
Joseph Richard June 1881
George Jabez June 1885
Sarah Sept 1887

There seems to be no registration for Edith ,Sophia and Eliza
But there is a baptism at the catholic chapel The Guardian Angels MEOT.
Brien Ely Terrace /Friendly place
Sophia born 4 Nov 1865 bapt 14 June 1872 d of Francis William Brien and Joanne nee Griffiths god mother Anna  Elizabeth Tarderry
Eliza born 12 Feb 1870  baptised at the same time.

So either Sophia and Edith are the same or there is something weird going on.

ps 1881 census 28 Brompton Square
Edith Brian single 15 house maid London

Ciderdrinker

[DCS]

wow thanks
ciderdri nker - I will look into all this.

[heywood]

More puzzles

Published  trees have Sophia Brien marrying Henry Levy in 1891.

1891 census has Henry and Sophia living next door to Francis and Co.

Francis and Jane are also showing a daughter, Sophia aged 16 yrs.

Added
Presumably she is Ellen who is 5 yrs in 1881

[heywood]

Marriages
Cider drinker has given the 1891 marriage for  Edith Wheatley and John McDonald.

There is this also
December 25th 1885
Alexander McDonald 22 yrs tin plate worker - father John McDonald, Painter
Eliza Brien, 19 yrs father Francis Brien, Cooper
Witnesses Henry and Sophia Levy

Two brothers and two sisters.