ESTHER McKENZIE

[haney]

Okay got it in NSW DEPOSIT JOURNALS.  Well that makes sense if JEAN LYELL is Esthers mother.   Hmmm very interesting.  Thanks

[wivenhoe]

"Esther used the name LYELL but NOT on the immigration record!!!"

What does this mean?.   Where do you see Esther using the name LYELL?

Loil seems to appear as given name in the family born in NSW, which I would see as attempt at Lyell.  Napier also appears here as a given name.

[haney]

Hi I just meant that she was LYELL on the census.  I don't see anything else with her using LYELL or variants.  Thanks Dianna I haven't seen the Loil reference in NSW as yet.  Will have a look on the BDM if that is what you meant.

Yes Napier does appear too in NSW.  Thanks

[Forfarian]

Jane McKenzie or Nicholson, mmn Yeaman, died in Dundee in 1884 aged 71.

So it looks as if Jean/Jane was a sister of Esther McKenzie, wife of Robert Adams. Again, her death certificate will clarify this.

Why is her name McKENZIE in 1851!!!

Because that is her surname. In Scotland a married woman doesn't legally lose her maiden surname, and it's not unusual to find a wife in the census under her own surname with a husband and children with a different surname.

Maybe Esther was Jane/Jean's illegitimate child, born before she married David Lyell? That would account for the difference in Esther's surname between the 1841 census and her marriage certificate.

[Forfarian]

Jane Lyall, aged 34, mmn McKenzie, died in Dundee in 1876.

David Lyall, aged 72, mmn McKenzie, died in Dundee in 1915.

So it looks very much as if they never did emigrate.

[haney]

Hi thanks so much Forfarian for the information. 

So we have Jane McKenzie/Nicholson dying in 1884 aged 71 so b c 1813.  Between the three census's her age range is 1809-1816, so possibly Esther was born to her when she was quite young.

I think Esther has just put this "John" on the immigration record as it looked better or that was actually his name?? but she is using her mothers maiden name.

What I did find curious was the mention in reply 12 of CHRISTIAN (could be Christina) YEAMAN married to Daniel McKenzie/McKinzi!!

Looks like Jane's mmn was Yeaman from the death record in 1884. Curious!! Thanks for finding that!

Would there be a marriage for Jean/Jane McKenzie to either partner LYELL or NICHOLSON??

So Esther has two half siblings Jane Lyall and David Lyall and there is no connection between Esther McKenzie to the Robert Adams.

Okay well that seems to be sorted out some what I would say!  Yes I agree they did not come to NSW!  Must have changed their minds!  Or circumstances changed here!  Thanks everyone really appreciate it.  Dianna

[Rosinish]

So we have Jane McKenzie/Nicholson dying in 1884 aged 71 so b c 1813.  Between the three census's her age range is 1809-1816, so possibly Esther was born to her when she was quite young.

Looks like Jane's mmn was Yeaman from the death record in 1884.

Would there be a marriage for Jean/Jane McKenzie to either partner LYELL or NICHOLSON??

So Esther has two half siblings Jane Lyall and David Lyall and there is no connection between Esther McKenzie to the Robert Adams.

The route would be to obtain the DC in 1884 to see if it states both 'Husbands' names which would be the norm unless the informant didn't know those details.

It may have been she lived with a partner/partners, never married but was assumed to have been married to either/both?

I have records of ancestors who were never married (no record of marriages found) but on their DCs it was 'believed' they'd been married even 'though the births of children show otherwise.

Annie

[haney]

Hi Rosinish Thanks

Yes of course that is quite possible that she was not married to either David or Alexander! 

I just remember from my research in Scotland many years ago that people were brought up against the "Kirk" to answer for illegitimate births and a marriage was encouraged! (or demanded)

Maybe not so much in later years perhaps.  Or I just cannot find any records.

I had a look for a marriage of Jean/Jane McKENZIE to anyone!! and for a baptism of Esther McKENZIE c 1831, No luck.

Really happy with what has been kindly found for me though.  All seems logical.  Regards Dianna

[Rosinish]

that is quite possible that she was not married to either David or Alexander! 

I just remember from my research in Scotland many years ago that people were brought up against the "Kirk" to answer for illegitimate births and a marriage was encouraged! (or demanded)

Maybe not so much in later years perhaps.  Or I just cannot find any records.

I had a look for a marriage of Jean/Jane McKENZIE to anyone!! and for a baptism of Esther McKENZIE c 1831, No luck.

Really happy with what has been kindly found for me though.  All seems logical.  Regards Dianna

Not all records are on SP for many different reasons whether breakaway churches, lost/damaged records, simply not recorded etc.

SP records are the cheapest by far throughout the world & the DC in 1884 will be full of info. which would never be recorded on other death certs. for a very small fee.

It seems many people are reluctant to spend £s on our comprehensive records for some reason but are happy to pay enormous amounts for records with minimal details from other countries

Annie