The mysterious Arthur Ernest Baker

[Forfarian]

You'll just need to check the marriage certificate to find out if it's the right one.

Maryhill is less than 30 miles from Stirling, and it's only a short journey by train from Stirling to Glasgow.

Maybe William died, or maybe they fell out with one another and she reverted to her first married name.

Jessie Johnstone, 37, William Baker, 17 and Arthur Baker, 11, are in the 1911 census in Glasgow Milton, ref 1901/644.9/13/19.

[LizzieL]

You'll just need to check the marriage certificate to find out if it's the right one.

Maryhill is less than 30 miles from Stirling, and it's only a short journey by train from Stirling to Glasgow.

Maybe William died, or maybe they fell out with one another and she reverted to her first married name.

Jessie Johnstone, 37, William Baker, 17 and Arthur Baker, 11, are in the 1911 census in Glasgow Milton, ref 1901/644.9/13/19.

Thank you
Looks as though the 1911 census confirms the marriage. I was looking for them in Stirling, so hadn't found that.
So William must have moved to Glasgow when he was about 7. Family story was he was born in London and moved to Scotland when he was 7. Maybe it was earlier generations from London.

[Annette7]

Strangely, I found a scenario that kind of fits except for name of mother.

A William Baker married a Maria Jane Endersby in 1861 London - one of their children was an Arthur Ernest Baker born 1873 Highgate.    William Baker was a painter, and in 1891 son Arthur is a plumbers apprentice.   Unless I missed him, can find no trace of this Arthur after 1891.

By 1901 Maria Jane is a widow, now referring to herself as Jane Baker.

Something to bear in mind perhaps.

Annette

[LizzieL]

Strangely, I found a scenario that kind of fits except for name of mother.

A William Baker married a Maria Jane Endersby in 1861 London - one of their children was an Arthur Ernest Baker born 1873 Highgate.    William Baker was a painter, and in 1891 son Arthur is a plumbers apprentice.   Unless I missed him, can find no trace of this Arthur after 1891.

By 1901 Maria Jane is a widow, now referring to herself as Jane Baker.

Something to bear in mind perhaps.

Annette

Thank you. So many similarities. I have found the baptism of Maria Jane and the marriage of her parents - Richard Endersby and maria Thomas - no Preston / Freston there.
I wonder if that name came from William baker's side.

[LizzieL]

Think I've found him in Hitchin, looks like mother's maiden name is Kimpton. Is that close enough to Freston? Did he get confused when asked his mother's maiden name and gave his grandmother's in a London accent to a Scottish minister, so it was misheard ?

[Rosinish]

I've come across instances with MMS/MMN being recorded as the g/m maiden name & have often wondered how the question was asked but I think it's not uncommon.

However, I don't see/hear Kimpton / Freston being mixed up unless it was a transcription error from a badly written/damaged record.

Annie

[LizzieL]

The snip I posted was from the marriage record purchased from Scotland's People. It would be a transcription of the actual marriage record as made by the minister. It doesn't have original signatures, just "signed" in brackets above names of bride and groom, witnesses and minister. Only actual signature is the registrars. Groom signed, so presumably literate and able to read the information but did he bother? I suspect it was all arranged in a hurry by the bride as the marriage took place at her home and she was only two months away from giving birth to Willie. If so, it was quite likely she gave incorrect information as regards her fiance's details.

[Forfarian]

Groom signed, so presumably literate and able to read the information but did he bother?

The Registrar would have asked him for the information about his own parents.

I suspect it was all arranged in a hurry by the bride as the marriage took place at her home

Most weddings took place in the bride's home at that time so don't read anything into that.

and she was only two months away from giving birth to Willie.

That might be a reason for hastening a marriage. But why bother rushing when it would be obvious to all in any case?

it was quite likely she gave incorrect information as regards her fiance's details.

You seem to be assuming that it was she who supplied the information?

[LizzieL]

Would the registrar be present at the ceremony, to ask Arthur his details? The marriage took place on 5th May 1893. The record I have an image of was completed by the registrar on the following day, thus officially registering the marriage. If anyone asked Arthur it would be the minister.
 
But apart from the mother's maiden name, the London family looks very plausible. Right age, right name and occupation for father, right name for mother (although use of second name, which she used in censuses after her husband died), and Arthur in London was an apprentice plumber - both Willie and Arthur jnr give that occupation for their father in their marriage records.

The family story was that Willie was born in London and went to Scotland when he was young (four or five it was thought "when he started school"). It was thought he was in Stirling all the time he was in Scotland, but my mother said his accent was Glaswegian. (She was in the WAAF in the WW2 and stationed in several parts of Scotland including close to Stirling so was a better judge of Scottish accents than me.)
But Willie may have visited his London grandparents when he was pre-school age and confused that with living there from birth. Maybe he never had a copy of his birth certificate.