Author Topic: Bomber routes to Germany (Aachen)  (Read 3744 times)

Offline Cornelius88

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Bomber routes to Germany (Aachen)
« on: Thursday 15 December 22 12:11 GMT (UK) »
I have obtained an aircraft loss card (Lancaster ND389) which shows several of what I think are navigational 'way points' which may indicate the route taken on a bombing raid to Aachen in April 1944. This was from RAF Wyton (83 Sqdn Pathfinder Base), to the Dutch coast, towards Cologne and then south past Aachen, swinging round to the south of the town and approaching it from the East.  At this point bombs would have been dropped and the aircraft would return towards the Dutch coast only to be shot down near Antwerp. 

The above is the result of a very rudimentary plot of the course.  Tthe internet based maps are of varying scales and multiple sheets which makes the gaining of an overall picture something of an impossibility.  In any event the 'way points' are few in number which leaves scope for much guesswork.  So far I've not been able to obtain a map of a reasonable scale such that a single sheet would cover the area I need - most cover way too far to the east

Full navigational details would have been given at operation briefing, but I wonder if there are any maps, official or otherwise, showing some of the more common routes taken?  Places to avoid would have been generally known by mid 1944, so there may have been some commonality to the routes which together with the loss card data might enable me to build up a clearer picture of the route taken in this case. 

Any information on how navigation worked would be appreciated.  My Grammar School maths teacher was a navigator with Bomber Command but like many who went through it, he said very little.

Co-ordinates on the loss card are not clear but my interpretation is:

Base   5242N  00:5W  (RAF Wyton Nr Huntingdon Cambs)
5200N 0330E
5044N  0610E
5200N  0330E
5100N   0620E

Aachen  LAT 50.766  LNG  06.0831

Offline tonepad

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Re: Bomber routes to Germany (Aachen)
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 15 December 22 13:38 GMT (UK) »
For basic navigation in peacetime daylight by dead reckoning consider the Wind Triangle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_triangle


By 1944 various electronic navigation aids had been developed, H2S and GEE for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2S_(radar)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gee_(navigation)


Tony
Aucock/Aukett~Kent/Sussex, Broadway~Oxfordshire, Danks~Warwickshire, Fenn~Kent/Norfolk, Goatham~Kent, Hunt~Kent, Parker~Middlesex, Perry~Kent, Sellers~Kent/Yorkshire, Sladden~Kent, Wright~Kent/Essex

Offline Cornelius88

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Re: Bomber routes to Germany (Aachen)
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 15 December 22 14:25 GMT (UK) »
By 1944 various electronic navigation aids had been developed, H2S and GEE for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2S_(radar)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gee_(navigation)
Tony
Thank you for this. 

According to the loss card, both GEE and H2S were on board this aircraft.  My understanding is that GEE involved the intersection of two radio beams which defined a particular point.  The suggestion is that the navigation points on the loss card would represent the intersections of some of these radio beams. 

These navigation points, effectively points at which the aircraft course would change, would have been given out at briefing since the aim would have been to keep the bomber stream in relatively close contact whilst enabling them to avoid known danger spots.  EG Nightfighter bases.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Bomber routes to Germany (Aachen)
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 15 December 22 14:31 GMT (UK) »
An air chart for NW Europe for an slightly later period (winter of 1944) showing German air defences zones can be found here: https://timeandnavigation.si.edu/multimedia-asset/world-war-ii-bombing-mission-radar-map


Offline Cornelius88

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Re: Bomber routes to Germany (Aachen)
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 15 December 22 15:00 GMT (UK) »
An air chart for NW Europe for an slightly later period (winter of 1944) showing German air defences zones can be found here: https://timeandnavigation.si.edu/multimedia-asset/world-war-ii-bombing-mission-radar-map
That's the sort of thing I'm looking for.  I'm certain something similar would have been available to the RAF. 

Unfortunately I can only persuade it to download a low-res image so the place names are difficult to decipher. 

Does anyone on here have any experience in interpreting aircraft loss cards?  The card also contains a reference to a W/T signal being received at 22:05 as: SLY V MCYA 2342 56603

By my reckoning and given take off time that would have put them somewhere just inside enemy territory in Holland, but I have no idea of the meaning of the signal.  It was the last they heard from the aircraft. 

Offline tonepad

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Re: Bomber routes to Germany (Aachen)
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 15 December 22 16:01 GMT (UK) »
According to the link below Lancaster ND389 was still on route to the target, and therefore full of fuel and bombs when shot down.

https://wartimememoriesproject.com/ww2/thosewhoserved/m-ww2.php?pagenum=43


Tony
Aucock/Aukett~Kent/Sussex, Broadway~Oxfordshire, Danks~Warwickshire, Fenn~Kent/Norfolk, Goatham~Kent, Hunt~Kent, Parker~Middlesex, Perry~Kent, Sellers~Kent/Yorkshire, Sladden~Kent, Wright~Kent/Essex

Offline Cornelius88

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Re: Bomber routes to Germany (Aachen)
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 15 December 22 18:55 GMT (UK) »
According to the link below Lancaster ND389 was still on route to the target, and therefore full of fuel and bombs when shot down.
https://wartimememoriesproject.com/ww2/thosewhoserved/m-ww2.php?pagenum=43
Tony
I think that's wrong and he was on the way home. 

The W/T signal was timed at 22:05  Given the take off time and assuming a cruising speed of a fully loaded Lanc at some 180mph that would put him somewhere near the Dutch coast so it is perfectly possible the signal meant 'enemy coast ahead' or similar.   At that point he was definitely  on the way in.  O/Lt Schnaufer claimed him at 23:15 near Beerse in Belgium not far from Antwerp so it's reasonable to suppose he was on his way home, albeit early in the journey. 

Neil has done some admirable work on tracing the history of ND389 but I'm not convinced the aircraft was on the way in when Schnaufer claimed him.  However, without a decent plot of the way point bearings or any detailed knowledge of the course it's difficult to conclude this with any certainty.


Offline still_looking

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Re: Bomber routes to Germany (Aachen)
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 15 December 22 22:37 GMT (UK) »
There's a transcription of a detailed document that might help in the bomber command digital archive. Scroll down on the page to read the transcription.
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/24698

They also have tagged materials related to technical elements such as Gee, H2S and Pathfinders amongst others. The results are quite a mix.
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/aerial-warfare-and-related-concepts

Example navigation log entries and plotted route of an operation to Aachen
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/18661

Hope this helps.

S_L


Offline tonepad

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Re: Bomber routes to Germany (Aachen)
« Reply #8 on: Friday 16 December 22 08:24 GMT (UK) »
"The W/T signal was timed at 22:05  Given the take off time and assuming a cruising speed of a fully loaded Lanc at some 180mph that would put him somewhere near the Dutch coast so it is perfectly possible the signal meant 'enemy coast ahead' or similar.   At that point he was definitely  on the way in.  O/Lt Schnaufer claimed him at 23:15 near Beerse in Belgium not far from Antwerp so it's reasonable to suppose he was on his way home, albeit early in the journey."

If the Lanc was on it's way home, then the speed with no bomb load and less fuel load could of been higher. When the Lanc was shot down was it still maintaining formation in the bomber stream or flying alone.

For navigation purposes, airspeed and groundspeed are measured in Knots (nautical miles per hour)
The UK nautical mile in 1944 was 6080 feet.

BAE Systems Spec:
Maximum Speed   282 mph (246 knots, 454 km/h) at 63,000 lb

The Wind Triangle (extreme examples):

airspeed 200 knots, headwind 200 knots gives a groundspeed of 0 knots
airspeed 200 knots, tailwind 200 knots gives a groundspeed of 400 knots

Is historic weather data available? (it is assumed the mission would be aborted if there was an adverse weather forecast).

Do you know a friendly pilot?
As you have waypoints these could be fed into a modern Flight Planning program to simulate the flight using realistic aircraft specifications.


Tony

Aucock/Aukett~Kent/Sussex, Broadway~Oxfordshire, Danks~Warwickshire, Fenn~Kent/Norfolk, Goatham~Kent, Hunt~Kent, Parker~Middlesex, Perry~Kent, Sellers~Kent/Yorkshire, Sladden~Kent, Wright~Kent/Essex