Author Topic: James Redmond, Baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey?  (Read 2781 times)

Offline Wexflyer

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James Redmond, Baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey?
« on: Friday 16 December 22 05:32 GMT (UK) »
So says FamilySearch.  But I don't see such a baptism on the NLI microfilm, or surrounding pages
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634070#page/104/mode/1up

Am I missing something?

Background:
The family of Moses Redmond and Catherine Crean (or Crane) lived in the townland of Ballywalterbeg (often rendered as just Ballywalter). However, there is no baptismal record of many of their children in their home parish of Ballygarrett. The "obvious" answer, given that they weren't heathens, is that the children were baptized  in a more convenient adjacent parish, such as Gorey.  And indeed, when I tested this theory out with James Redmond, born ca. 1865, it immediately said yes!
-  James Redmond, baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey to the above parents.

But I see no such baptism  :(
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline Neale1961

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Re: James Redmond, Baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 16 December 22 06:16 GMT (UK) »
The family search entry  does not say baptism.
I think it is a reference to this civil record.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03574/2317440.pdf
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: James Redmond, Baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 16 December 22 06:23 GMT (UK) »
There is a baptism for the son Pierce - born 1868.
And Anne 1871, and Michael 1873 and Marcello 1874.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: James Redmond, Baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 16 December 22 06:28 GMT (UK) »
The family search entry  does not say baptism.
I think it is a reference to this civil record.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03574/2317440.pdf

Ah, so the birth and baptism collection is not just extracts from the parish register collection (with birth and baptismal dates). My sincere apologies to FamilySearch!   :D

Then left with puzzle as to why I can't find a baptism for James,  who went on to be the Very Rev. James Canon Redmond, so I doubt he was unbaptized.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area


Offline Neale1961

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Re: James Redmond, Baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 16 December 22 06:40 GMT (UK) »
I can see there are baptism records for some of the Redmond children, but not all.
So perhaps records have been lost, or some were not baptised for other reasons.
If the family had to travel for a baptism, it may have been too difficult.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Kiltaglassan

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Re: James Redmond, Baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 16 December 22 07:37 GMT (UK) »

The family of Moses Redmond and Catherine Crean (or Crane) lived in the townland of Ballywalterbeg (often rendered as just Ballywalter).


Ballywalter Beg townland NE of Ballycanew.

https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/ballaghkeen-north/killenagh/ardamine/ballywalter-beg/

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2297844#map=13/52.6280/-6.2816


Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: James Redmond, Baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 16 December 22 08:15 GMT (UK) »
I can see there are baptism records for some of the Redmond children, but not all.
So perhaps records have been lost, or some were not baptised for other reasons.
If the family had to travel for a baptism, it may have been too difficult.

Parish registers are extant for all except possibly/probably for James in 1865 in Ballygarrett.

Distances were nothing unusual. The mother had a Jesuit uncle, she had a convent boarding school education, her son became a Canon, and two daughters became Reverend Mothers. I don't think it would have been too difficult somehow...
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline heywood

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Re: James Redmond, Baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 16 December 22 08:47 GMT (UK) »
I can see there are baptism records for some of the Redmond children, but not all.
So perhaps records have been lost, or some were not baptised for other reasons.
If the family had to travel for a baptism, it may have been too difficult.

Which parish are these please? I can only see entries for the children similar to that of James - a birth entry in ‘ Select Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911’.

Ballygarrett records stop at 1863
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0574

Does Roots Ireland have the records?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: James Redmond, Baptized 1-May-1865 in Gorey?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 16 December 22 09:02 GMT (UK) »
I can see there are baptism records for some of the Redmond children, but not all.
So perhaps records have been lost, or some were not baptised for other reasons.
If the family had to travel for a baptism, it may have been too difficult.

Which parish are these please? I can only see entries for the children similar to that of James - a birth entry in ‘ Select Births and Baptisms, 1620-1911’.

Ballygarrett records stop at 1863
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0574

Does Roots Ireland have the records?

Well, I guess I (we) learned that "Select births and baptisms" includes Civil Registration entries as well as baptisms, which I did not previously appreciate (only started using FamilySearch a few weeks ago).

Ballywalterbeg is in the parish of Ballygarrett.

Ballygarrett parish registers don't actually stop in 1863. It is another example of the all too frequent case where the NLI didn't film all the records. Roots Ireland have baptisms from 1865 on again. So there is a gap from 1863 to (maybe) sometime in 1865 - RI don't give precise dates.

The other obvious parish they could have used is Gorey.

At this point, I think the "body count" has increased and at this point there are only 2 of 11 baptisms outstanding, James being one, Grace being the other. James may have fallen into a lacuna in the records, but not Grace.

Thanks to Neale1961 for the Gorey baptisms (they are baptisms I assume?)
-
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area