Author Topic: Help needed to identify Elizabeth English  (Read 2342 times)

Offline Shiny1

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Help needed to identify Elizabeth English
« on: Friday 30 December 22 11:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi All,

I've been looking into my great great grandmother Mary Hall (b.1871) from North Shields and thought I had finished until I spotted a story in the newspapers about her and her second husband (Richard Wright) to do with a child witnessing an affair resulting in the death of the other woman!

The story says Richard was seen by his step daughter Elizabeth Mary English who went and told her mother.

Mary Hall was first married to Charles English (b. 1871 in North Shields) in 1890, he died in an accident at the local gasworks in 1896 but as far as I know Charles and Mary had four children:

William English born 1889
Charles English born 1891
Jane English born 1893
Mary Isabella English born 1894

Mary married her second husband Richard in 1900

I can't find Elizabeth Mary English on any census however the 1901 census has a 5 year old Isabella English as a daughter in law (Charles and Jane are also down as in law's rather than step children). None of Charles and Mary's children are on the 1911 census with Richard and Mary, it is just their children (ie from her second marriage).

The affair happened in 1906 1909 so I'm wondering if Elizabeth Mary English and Mary Isabella English is actually one and the same person?

Can anyone help confirm or deny this?

Thanks a lot,

Michael

Dale (Newcastle Upon Tyne), Beck, English, Hall, Harrison, Stephenson (all from the North Shields, South Shields area), Woodger (from the Newcastle and Liss areas)

Online Tickettyboo

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Re: Help needed to identify Elizabeth English
« Reply #1 on: Friday 30 December 22 12:30 GMT (UK) »

The affair happened in 1906 so I'm wondering if Elizabeth Mary English and Mary Isabella English is actually one and the same person?


Hi Michael
as this seems to be the main source for your query, could you check that date please?
I'm not seeing anything in 1906 in the newspapers but on 16 Apr 1909 there are extremely likely reports in the Newcastle Daily Chronicle, Evening Chronicle and the Shields Daily News.


Boo

Offline Shiny1

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Re: Help needed to identify Elizabeth English
« Reply #2 on: Friday 30 December 22 12:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi Boo,

It's just as well you are here to keep me in check, yes you are correct they were in court on the 16th of April 1909 for the incident which happened on the 3rd of April 1909. Sorry about that.

I've just been looking at the GRO indexes River Tyne Lass posted about in the resources section, I've searched for a Elizabeth Mary English between 1882 and 1906 anywhere in the country with a MMN of Hall and not found anyone, I did find Mary Isabella in 1894 though so the search definitely works and if Elizabeth exists she wasn't registered.
Dale (Newcastle Upon Tyne), Beck, English, Hall, Harrison, Stephenson (all from the North Shields, South Shields area), Woodger (from the Newcastle and Liss areas)

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Re: Help needed to identify Elizabeth English
« Reply #3 on: Friday 30 December 22 15:05 GMT (UK) »
1901 census 17 Front St., North Shields
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSMB-269
all the children on that page have a mmn of Hall per the GRO site births search

1909 16 Apr Shields Daily News page 3 , col 1
Inquest report on the death of Sarah Watson
and that says Elizabeth Mary English, her step father Richard Wright and his wife Mary Wright all gave their address as 18 Front St.

1911 census 13 North St., North Shields
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMN-LNH

again all the children listed come up with a MMN of Hall

So, certainly it looks very likely that the 'Elizabeth Mary English' is the same person as your Mary Isabella English. PROVIDING you have the marriage record for Richard Wright (cert or PR) which confirms the bride as Mary English (nee Hall) a widow with the right father's name and maybe some helpful names as witnesses.? (I know the children on the 1901 census match but this is Mrs Belt n Braces Boo, lol)

Actual proof is difficult. I'd first try to confirm the family were still living in Front Street in Apr 1909 which would tie in as a match with the inquest report address and lend a little weight to the theory.

I've tried the available online electoral registers but Tynemouth doesn't seem to be in the database after 1865.
? Maybe the local studies or Newcastle Library have the relevant registers so you could check

The two youngest Wright children on the 1911 census were
Richard Wright, birth registered Q3 1908 Tynemouth, mmn Hall
John  Wright, birth registered Q4 1910, Tynemouth, mmn Hall

Baptism records/birth certs for them would hopefully provide an address which may help - again the local studies would be my first port of call if, like you, I lived in the area.

Hopefully others can come up with different avenues to search that I didn't think of.

Boo




Offline Shiny1

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Re: Help needed to identify Elizabeth English
« Reply #4 on: Friday 30 December 22 15:37 GMT (UK) »
Thanks a lot for looking Boo, a fantastic help as always.

I've checked my notes and don't seem to have the marriage register for them but I'll go into the library when I can and see if I can find it.

I have got a note saying the Shields Daily News announced Mary died on the 20th of October 1940 but I can't find that either, I'll have to look in my paper notes and see if I have a hard copy.

Thanks again,

Michael
Dale (Newcastle Upon Tyne), Beck, English, Hall, Harrison, Stephenson (all from the North Shields, South Shields area), Woodger (from the Newcastle and Liss areas)

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Re: Help needed to identify Elizabeth English
« Reply #5 on: Friday 30 December 22 15:47 GMT (UK) »
Shields Daily News 21 Oct 1940, page 2 col 1

:-)

Boo

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Re: Help needed to identify Elizabeth English
« Reply #6 on: Friday 30 December 22 15:54 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Boo,

I've switched from the BNA to using FindMyPast and am struggling to find it. I'll give it another try.

Michael
Dale (Newcastle Upon Tyne), Beck, English, Hall, Harrison, Stephenson (all from the North Shields, South Shields area), Woodger (from the Newcastle and Liss areas)

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Re: Help needed to identify Elizabeth English
« Reply #7 on: Friday 30 December 22 16:20 GMT (UK) »
There are also In Memoriam notices from a selection of her children
Shields Daily News 20 Oct 1941 page 2, col 1

Boo


Offline AllanUK

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Re: Help needed to identify Elizabeth English
« Reply #8 on: Friday 30 December 22 18:04 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Boo,

I've switched from the BNA to using FindMyPast and am struggling to find it. I'll give it another try.

Michael

Find My Past link to the article that Boo found.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0002077%2f19401021%2f035&stringtohighlight=mary