Anybody recognise this officer?

[John915]

Back again,

Whatever the 1st medal, he has them out of order. That one should be 2nd and another possibility for it is the 1904/5 Russo-Japanese war medal.

John915

[John915]

Good morning,

The bars for Crimea are, Alma Balaklava, Inkerman and Sebastopol. There is a 5th but for naval personnel only.

John915

This one should have appeared first.

[SiGr]

If the first medal is the Queen Victoria 1897 Diamond Jubilee Medal (with Clasp '1897') then his medals are not out of order. The London 5 Jan 1888 Gazette Supplement to the 1887 award stated that, "This Medal is ... to be worn ... after the Decorations of Orders, and before War Medals". This precedence of Jubilee, Coronation and Durbar medals was apparently changed in 1918 and published in The London Gazette of 22 April 1921. All credit here to the people who cited the sources in the relevant Wikipedia pages. It might seem strange to us that the precedence was once like this but at one stage the VC had a lower precedence than certain honours.

On the suggestion that the first medal is the 1904/05 Russo/Japanese War Medal, I'm not sure why a British General (or indeed any British Serviceman) would have been granted that medal but a Google search shows that medal had a horizontal bar to attach it to the ribbon whereas the medal in the portrait is suspended by a ring (as well as having a bar of some form).

In the meantime, hopefully the original poster will at some stage take some closer photos of the medals that might include some more detail to allow further research.

[SiGr]

Meanwhile …

I was bugged (see earlier post) by the third medal and the Belgian Order of the Crown that a poster thought it could be. The ‘bug’ was the device connecting the medal to the ribbon.

I think what the General has is the French Legion d’Honneur. All credit here to the research of ‘GrafVonEbbell’ for his graphic on Wikipedia for how the design of the award changed over time. Of significance here, from 1852-1870 (the Second Empire) the award was surmounted by a crown. After the establishment of the Third Republic the crown was, understandably, replaced by a wreath. The crimson ribbon remained unchanged. In the portrait there is a rosette on the ribbon indicating this was the award of an ‘Officier’ (i.e. ‘Officer’) of the Order.

So, the sitter in the portrait was awarded his Legion d’Honneur sometime between 1852 and 1870. Presumably in relation to his service in the Crimea (where the French were our allies).

For reference, see:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Legion_d’Honneur_Evolution.png

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Honour

[Andy J2022]

This thread is proving to be a masterclass in how to identify Victorian Honours and Awards. According to this Wikipedia article the Légion d'Honneur was awarded to 746 members of the British Armed Forces during the Crimean War, including General Sir Francis Seymour (ruled out by SiGr on page 3) and General Sir Daniel Lysons who I assume is still in the running, despite Rockford's earlier doubts.

[hepburn]

Is this him at a younger age.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/General_Frederick_Horn.jpg

[Viktoria]

He does bear some resemblance ,allowing for age , to Gonville Broomhead, of Rorke’s Drift.
Played by Michael Caine in the film Zulu .
I have no knowledge of Military Medals so am unable to comment on those.
Just a long shot.
Viktoria.

[SiGr]

Hi, hepburn,

Gen Sir Frederick Horn is an interesting suggestion.

Of note, he and Gen Lysons both had the GCB, Legion d’Honneur, Crimea Medal, Sardinian Crimea Medal and the Turkish Crimea Medal as well as the Order of the Medjidie, 3rd Class. The only difference here, as has been mentioned before, is that Gen Lysons had three Crimea clasps whereas the sitter in the painting (and Gen Horn) has four.

So, could he be the sitter ? Maybe. The one niggle I have here is the first medal in the row - what appears to be the Queen Victoria 1897 Diamond Jubilee Medal with Clasp ‘1897’. If that is correct, then that would exclude Gen Horn as (according to Wikipedia) he died in 1894.

I agree that the two men do not look entirely dissimilar so, if the 1897 Jubilee medal is wrong, you might be correct. That said, you mention the Wikipedia picture might be a ‘younger’ version of him. As he became a GCB in 1889, he was approx. 84 or older when that painting was done of him - so I would think he should look almost exactly similar to the sitter but the resemblance is not what I would call a strong match.

As mentioned before, if we ever get a close-up of the original medals from the original poster that might help resolve this matter.

ATB

Simon

[rpweedon]

Hats off to you diligent sleuths! I admire your tenacity and knowledge.  Here is close-up photo of sitter's medals.  Painting is only 9" by 11" so medal detail limited. I was told the sitter is Wincheslea but I have my doubts hence my inquiry.  Hopefully accompanying picture will help resolve my question.

Peter