John Thompson - Roslin

[aidansrest]

Hi

I am looking to try and confirm a baptism and then follow the Thompson family through until 1871.

The person I am interested in is a John Thompson, (Thomson)  born c 1845 in Scotland.
He married Ann (Mary Ann) Giles in Sunderland on the 25th December 1868 (at present I do not know the venue, but not C of E).
They had a child, Archibald Melville, born in Sunderland on the 22nd November 1870, but, by 1871, the young family were living in Westoe, South Shields, where John was employed as a paper maker.
His year of birth given as 1844, place of birth 'Scotland.'

A son James, was born in Sunderland on the 8th April 1873, and his birth was followed by those of; Mary Ann, born on the 16th December 1874, Jane, born on the 17th January 1877, and Margaret, born on the 14th June 1879.
By 1881, the growing family were residing in 6 Richmond Street, Monkwearmouth, where John was now employed as a brewery cellarman, alongside his younger brother, James, who was lodging with them; his year of birth was given as 1846, place of birth, Scotland.
John's year of birth was given as 1844, place of birth 'Scotland.'

Another son, John, was born on the 29th May 1882, and David, was born on the 24th May 1884.

John's wife, Ann, died on the 2nd September 1888.

The family remained in Richmond Street, and, by 1891, John was now employed as a ‘general cartman’, son, Archibald, was an iron forgeman, James, was a wire paper maker, and daughters, Mary Ann and Jane, were working as general servants.
John's year of birth was given as 1845 and, this time, his place of birth was given more precisely as Roslin, Scotland.
John had died prior to his daughter, Margaret’s, wedding in October 1898, but his daughter, Jane, had married William Sykes on the 25th January 1896, and remained in the family home, 6 Richmond Street.

I have found a baptism for a John Menzies Thompson, born in Roslin on the 1st January 1846, baptised there on the 18th January, son of David Thomson (Thompson) and his wife, Ann Menzies.

The couple married in Leith, Midlothian on the 13th April 1841 - Ann being named as the daughter of John Menzies.

They can be found together (possbily) on the 1841 census living in Lanarkshire, where David appears to be an agricultural labourer. Both years of birth given as 1816.

They had a daughter, Margaret Jane, born on the 5th March 1843.

The couple and their two children can be found in 1851 living in Maryfield Loan, St Cuthbert's, Midlothian where David was employed as a 'spirit dealer.'
David's year of birth was now given as c1812, place of birth, Liberton, Midlothian
Ann's year of birth was now given as c1806, place of birth, Carnwath, Midlothian

Both Margaret Jane and John were baptised again on the 18th April 1855, by which time their father was now employed as a toll keeper.

I was convinced that the John Thomson (Thompson) who married Ann Giles, was their son, however, there in no trace of his brother, James Thompson, with David and Ann, nor can I find any trace of James' baptism or the family in 1861.

John's father-in-law, William Giles, was also a paper maker, so that is obviously how he originally met his wife, but where was he in 1861, and were David and Ann Thomson his parents?

Can anyone help??

Thanks
Sue

[CaroleW]

What was his fathers name & occupation on the 1868 marriage cert? 

[aidansrest]

This is the thing - I only know the date, don't know the venue (apart from Sunderland), and know nothing of it's contents.

Was trying to avoid purchasing a copy, as was sure David was John's father....now, not so sure!

Sue

[CaroleW]

Unfortunately - can’t see any transcription online.  Nothing on Ancestry or FS

Looking at the birth entries 1844-1846 on SP there are 11 entries in Midlothian & every one is spelt without a P - Thomson 🤔

To be absolutely certain - it may be best to get the marriage cert

[CaroleW]

Looking at the 1851 entry you mention above - son John is shown as b Edinburgh

[CaroleW]

There is an 1861 entry for Durham with a John Thompson b 1845 Scotland - parents William & Jane

[aidansrest]

That might be worth a look - but I can see a copy cert being bought!

Sue

[Forfarian]

You definitely need to get a copy of the marriage certificate to get his father's name and occupation.

In Scotland, Thomson is normally spelled without the p so make sure that you look at Thomson as well as Thompson.

His year of birth given as 1844, place of birth 'Scotland.'

The original census never gives a year of birth. It tells you how old he said he was on his last birthday before the census. Many web sites (mis)calculate the year of birth by subtracting the stated age from the census year. This gives a wrong answer three times out of four because the census is usually taken about a quarter of the way through the year.

If he said he was 37 on the day of the 1871 census he was more likely born in 1843 than in 1844, but you need to check both years. At least he was reasonably consistent when he said how old he was.

There are 104 baptisms of John Thom(p)son in Scotland in 1843/1844, and there are almost certainly others whose baptism records, if they ever existed, have not survived.

The index at Scotland's People lists 211 John Thom(p)sons aged 5 to 7 in the 1851 census in Scotland.

FreeCEN lists 317 John Thomsons aged 5 to 9 in the 1851 census. Only one of these was born in Roslin: the 8-year-old son of James T, rail labourer, and his wife Elizabeth. There's no record of his baptism, or of the baptisms of his brothers James and Archibald.

There is, however, a marriage of James Thomson to Elizabeth Melville in Lasswade in 1840. Noting that John's eldest son was named Archibald Melville, and that Elizabeth Melville's third son was named Archibald, I think that this is the John T I would be looking at more closely rather than the son of David Thomson and Ann Menzies.

[aidansrest]

Thank you so much!!

However, I will go ahead and purchase a copy marriage certificate.

Many thanks again

Sue