birth/baptism for Rachel THOMAS about 1835

[shawnfbrown]

Looking for baptism/birth record for Rachel THOMAS.  She married John Hughes, about 1854; first son John was born abt 1856.  i do not have confirmed marriage record yet.  Birth record of her daughter, my ggrandmother, Elizabeth, lists mmn as Rachel Thomas.  1871 Census lists Rachel Hughes' place of birth as Llangyfelach, Glamorganshire, age 36 (giving birth year about 1835 +/-)   1881 Census lists same place of birth.  1901 census lists same place.  My search online resulted in only one possible match of 1833 baptism of Rachel, daughter of David and Rachel Thomas, parish of Llansamlet, by Griffiths, perpetual curate.  My google map search shows Llansamlet is near Llangyfelach and Genuki Gazetteer extract from Lewis, 1833, says Llansamet is a parish in the hundred of Llangyvelach, Glamorgan. 

Is this 1833 baptism reliable?  I've not found any baptisms for Rachel Thomas in 1833-1838 time period in Llangyfelach.  Thank you for any suggestions.

[QueenoftheWest]

There is a marriage between a John Hughes and a Rachel Thomas that took place in 1854 in Llangynwyd, Glamorganshire.

John is of full age, a collier and his father is Job Hughes, labourer. Rachel is a minor and her father is John Thomas, labourer. A John Thomas witnesses the marriage.

Queenie 

[QueenoftheWest]

Possible 1841 census?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7WQ-SJ4

Rachel is born c.1836 and she is living in Llangyfelach with her father, John, and her mother, Hannah.

Queenie 

[maddys52]

A possibility - a Rachel THOMAS baptised at Tumble 24 Oct 1835, parents John and Ann (nee EVANS). ("Hannah" and "Ann" being the same name.)
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5cb9aa4ef493fdc2bc5d484a

Tumble is some 14 miles from Llangyfelach.

However, if the family Queenie gave in the 1841 census is correct, a possibility for Susannah THOMAS birth registration Swansea Jun qtr 1840 has mmn REES. There is a marriage for a John THOMAS and Susannah REES at Llangyfelach 9 Aug 1828, both otp ("Susannah" could well be "Hannah")
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5f292654f493fd94d8a81d1e

[maddys52]

Although there is also a John THOMAS of Llangyfelach marries a Hannah REES at Betwis on 16 Feb 1821.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817b650e93790eb7f6eb160

Such a common name - it's very difficult isn't it!

[shawnfbrown]

Thanks for your quick replies!

Should I be skeptical of 1841 census or parentage of Rachel THOMAS if her mother's forename is Hannah/Susannah given the lack of similar name for Rachel's daughters when she married John Hughes?  She had 2 daughters, Elizabeth and Margaret Ann?  I'm not sure how closely naming patterns for elders was followed.

[QueenoftheWest]

To answer your question, I certainly wouldn't rule her out just because she didn't use her mother's name on any of her daughters. Naming conventions can be a good guide, but people didn't always follow them.

As maddys52, put it:

Such a common name - it's very difficult isn't it!

It is always going to be difficult to confirm parentage with 100% certainty with a surname like Thomas.

However, the daughter of John & Hannah seems to fit the criteria.

Queenie 

[osprey]

I had a look for Rachel after your earlier post
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=869184.msg7400752#msg7400752

Don't forget that the daughter born to Rachel's second marriage was called Sarah Hannah

I think the 1841 census posted by QueenoftheWest is the most likely but the Tumble baptism seems too far. I suspect the family was non-conformist so no parish baptisms.
The marriage posted by maddys52 looks to be correct. The birth reg for Susannah has mother's maiden name Rees.
Marriage register for Bettws shows the marriage as 16 Feb 1821, John Thomas is of Llangyfelach and Hannah Rees otp.
1851 census shows Hannah's place of birth as Bettws
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGBX-627

Possible marriage for older sister Mary 25 Dec 1852 in Llangyfelach parish church
Calep/b Jenkins 20 bach haulier Llwyni of the parish of Llangynwyd father David Jenkins labourer
Mary Thomas 20 spinster Tymawr of this parish father John Thomas labourer
address for Mary is the same as the 1851 census for her parents.

 


   

[shawnfbrown]

the 1851 census pointed out by osprey has head of household John Thomas, wife Hannah Thomas, daughter Susanah Thomas, age 11, and foster son David Found.  If this is same family, Rachel Thomas would be age 15 in 1851 census.  She is not in the household. 

I've located a possible marriage for Rachel Thomas.  My ancestor Elizabeth Hughes' birth record listed her parents as Rachel Thomas and John Hughes.  Birth of Rachel and John Hughes' oldest son was 1856.  There is a 22 Nov 1854 marriage of Rachel Thomas to John Hughes in Llangwynwyd, listing Rachel as a minor.  I don't know age of majority in the 1850s.  Her father John Thomas as a laborer, which is consistent with 1841 census listing John Thomas with Rachel as daughter in his household with same occupation.

I was wondering, if this 1854 marriage record is correct, how Rachel Thomas from Llangyfelach, ended up living in Llangynwyd as a minor and then marrying there if her family was in Llangyfelach.?  If the 1841 census is correct, she would be 18 in 1854.
 I know people did not keep exact track of their birth years at this time.  The marriage record says she resided Craig-y-bedw cottages, Llani Higher.  Her father is listed as John Thomas on the marriage record, occupation laborer.

Interestingly, osprey pointed out possible marriage of older sister Mary 1852 in Llangyfelach to Calep/b Jenkins of the parish of Llangynwyd.  Maybe there were connections between these locales for the THomas family.?


Any suggestions or help welcomed!  Thanks.