Author Topic: Marriage records for Duddingston parish  (Read 187 times)

Offline PixieAnna

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Marriage records for Duddingston parish
« on: Wednesday 18 January 23 16:37 GMT (UK) »
Just wondering if anyone can help me sort out this anomaly.
For a long time I just accepted the date of a marriage on 21 Nov 1830 as shown on Familysearch but looking at the actual parish register entry on ScotlandsPeople, that date is the record of the 3rd reading of the Banns. On Familysearch Genealogies the marriage date is given as 1st December 1830 but I can't see where they found this. I was hoping to find out something about the couple's parents from the marriage record but I'm getting nowhere.
The groom had another earlier marriage in Kelso, which record shows the same thing ie., the 3rd reading of the Banns is given as the marriage date.
Are these entries likely to have been the dates of the actual marriages? If so, any ideas on why the Genealogies record would show a later date?
And if these are the actual marriage entries, am I wasting my time looking for further clarification if Scottish records don't include details of the couple's parents as English parish records do?
Hoping someone can help!
Many thanks.
BURTON - Alton
COLLINS, LOWE - Eccles
EDWARDS, BROWN - Lyme Regis
FORBES - Edinburgh, Suffolk, Wales, Liverpool, Salford
HANKINSON - Bowdon, Altrincham, Macclesfield, Stockport
HODSON - Barton-on-Irwell, Chorlton-u-Medlock
KIRK, HEPWORTH, LINSLEY - Leeds
LEADBETTER - Halewood, Speke, Childwall, Woolton; Pendleton; Barton-on-Irwell
LEE, HULME - Wilmslow
MELLING - Lytham,
SANDERSON, MARSDEN, RICH - W.R of Yorks.
RALPH - Dublin; Salford

Online Tickettyboo

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,837
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage records for Duddingston parish
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 18 January 23 16:54 GMT (UK) »
Did these people remain in Scotland?
If they died there then providing they died after civil registration began (and the informant knew) their death register entries would name their parents.

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/record-guides/statutory-register-deaths

Boo

Offline PixieAnna

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage records for Duddingston parish
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 18 January 23 17:13 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your reply, Boo.
Yes, they both died in Scotland, most likely Kelso.
It's the groom I'm following but unfortunately he died in 1849 according to parish registers on Ancestry. I didn't think they'd show parental details like the Statutory records from 1855 would.
Do you think it would still be worthwhile getting that Death record?
BURTON - Alton
COLLINS, LOWE - Eccles
EDWARDS, BROWN - Lyme Regis
FORBES - Edinburgh, Suffolk, Wales, Liverpool, Salford
HANKINSON - Bowdon, Altrincham, Macclesfield, Stockport
HODSON - Barton-on-Irwell, Chorlton-u-Medlock
KIRK, HEPWORTH, LINSLEY - Leeds
LEADBETTER - Halewood, Speke, Childwall, Woolton; Pendleton; Barton-on-Irwell
LEE, HULME - Wilmslow
MELLING - Lytham,
SANDERSON, MARSDEN, RICH - W.R of Yorks.
RALPH - Dublin; Salford

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,085
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage records for Duddingston parish
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 18 January 23 18:06 GMT (UK) »
Marriage records in the Old Parish Registers are, generally speaking, not necessarily the record of the date of the wedding ceremony, but the date on which the proclamations of banns were completed, though some OPRs do also state the date of the wedding ceremony.

There are a couple of possibilities for a wedding date.

One is to have a look in the newspapers of the time. However it's only a small minority of the populace who would have put announcements in the papers.

Another is that it may have been in a family bible. To verify this you would need to look at all the online genealogies to find out which one doesn't quote any of the others as the source of the information. The reason for this is that people just copy whole chunks of family trees they find online without checking the original sources, so before you know it you have 50 or 100 trees all with the same information. So you need to find out which is the one from which all the others were copied. Not an easy task, I fear.

As for the death, it is very unlikely that an 1849 death record will give the names of the deceased person's parents. An 1830 marriage might mention the name of the bride's father, and/or very occasionally the groom's father, but the names of their mothers are almost never included.

There are several ways of finding an original death record before 1849

- The Old Parish Registers at Scotland's People. However these are very incomplete in coverage. You can look up which parish registers contain death records - see https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/old-parish-registers/list-of-old-parish-registers - but I see that Kelso has just three deaths on record, all in 1839.

- The Kirk Session accounts sometimes contain records of cash received for the hire of a mortcloth. This was a cloth that was used to cover the coffin during the funeral service. Most parishes had at least one mortcloth which could be hired, and the proceeds went into the poors fund. You find the KS records on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk. The volume of accounts of Kelso KS 1814-1855 is extant and available.

- Gravestones. I do not know what is available in the way of gravestones from Kelso but I'm sure someone else will.

- Newspapers. Same comments as above.

- Family bible. Same comments as above.

- Sasines. These are the records of change of ownership of land. They're not online. You have to go to the National Records of Scotland for these. Or hire a searcher or get someone to go on your behalf.

- National Records of Scotland and other archives. There are catalogues at https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/ - whether there are documents relating to your man depends partly on his situation in life, and whether he had to do with the agencies that generate records. Again, these items are rarely online.

Never trust anything you find on Ancestry, FamilySearch, MyHeritage, Geni or 1001 other web sites out there unless it's an image of an original document.

The vast majority of original Scottish documents that are available online are at Scotland's People.

Quote
And if these are the actual marriage entries, am I wasting my time looking for further clarification if Scottish records don't include details of the couple's parents as English parish records do?
Quite possibly.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline GR2

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,588
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage records for Duddingston parish
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 18 January 23 18:38 GMT (UK) »
21st November 1830 was a Sunday, which fits in with the final reading of the banns. However, Sunday weddings were very rare. Saturday was the commonest day for weddings. 1st December 1830 was a Wednesday.

Offline PixieAnna

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 108
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage records for Duddingston parish
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 18 January 23 19:50 GMT (UK) »
Thank you GR2 for those details and Forfarian for your fullsome reply.

I have tried some of the suggestions you've made but am no further forward. I think my ancestor must have fallen through the parish register cracks although there is a chance there could be a gravestone for him in Kelso.
I have always treated unsubstantiated details on Ancestry and the like with extreme caution!
The details I have were gleaned from parish records and actual certificates but thank you for the reminder  :)

Best wishes, Anna
BURTON - Alton
COLLINS, LOWE - Eccles
EDWARDS, BROWN - Lyme Regis
FORBES - Edinburgh, Suffolk, Wales, Liverpool, Salford
HANKINSON - Bowdon, Altrincham, Macclesfield, Stockport
HODSON - Barton-on-Irwell, Chorlton-u-Medlock
KIRK, HEPWORTH, LINSLEY - Leeds
LEADBETTER - Halewood, Speke, Childwall, Woolton; Pendleton; Barton-on-Irwell
LEE, HULME - Wilmslow
MELLING - Lytham,
SANDERSON, MARSDEN, RICH - W.R of Yorks.
RALPH - Dublin; Salford