Author Topic: CHRISTIAN ROSE and Family Westmoreland PA  (Read 353 times)

Offline haney

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CHRISTIAN ROSE and Family Westmoreland PA
« on: Friday 20 January 23 23:17 GMT (UK) »
Hi Everyone I am trying to gather some information on the above (b c 1775-1827) in and around Hempfield Westmoreland PA and his wife CATHERINE BEYER (b 1778-1848) (aka BOYER).

This couple were Lutheran and belonged it seems to the church in Westmoreland.

Their children are:-

JACOB

CHRISTIAN B 1802 Baptised first Lutheran Greensburg.  He married Elizabeth BYERS and they lived in Armstrong county PA. with their six children. Christian died in 1888

SOLOMON

MARTHA

CHRISTIANA

DAVID

I am trying to find any Lutheran baptismal records for any of the family and from there I am hoping to find the origins of CHRISTIAN ROSE b c 1775-1827.  Any help would be great thanks.  Kind regards Dianna from Aus

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: CHRISTIAN ROSE and Family Westmoreland PA
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 21 January 23 00:52 GMT (UK) »
http://genealogytrails.com/penn/westmoreland/births/r-birth.html

Ross    Christian    10/11/1802    11/25/1804    Christian    Catharina    Parents    30
Ross    Anthony    10/20/1804    11/25/1804    Christian    Catharina    Anthony Altman, Elizabeth    30
Ross    John Samuel    5/14/1830    7/4/1830    Samuel    Elizabeth    Gottfried Pfund, Catharina    130


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how did I find it?
My gg grandmother's sisters were baptized there. (She was born in York, PA, herself, before they moved there.)
I got originally got the information from online images of this book:
Della Reagan Fischer, compiler, Births - Baptisms of the First Lutheran Church, Westmoreland County, Greensburg, Pennsylvania, 1792-1853 (McKeesport, Pennsylvania, 1964).

So I googled the author and title, and found that ancestry had it indexed. Tried Rose but ancestry didn't find Ross for Rose. Went farther down the hits from google and found that some kind soul had transcribed the whole book :)

If you want to look for the surnames with other letters, start here:
http://genealogytrails.com/penn/westmoreland/births/

The whole site might be worth looking at.

edit to add:
I don't see any other family members, though.

Offline haney

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Re: CHRISTIAN ROSE and Family Westmoreland PA
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 21 January 23 01:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi thanks very much for that information. Yes the "possible" variants in the surname ROSE/ROOS etc are awful.  LOL  Will check out the link.  Many thanks Dianna

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: CHRISTIAN ROSE and Family Westmoreland PA
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 21 January 23 01:30 GMT (UK) »
do you have them on censuses? did they stay in Hempfield Township?
---------
I'm just going to throw some references for Westmoreland County at you that might help. A lot of them might be online somewhere by now.

Della Reagan Fischer, copier and compiler, Marriage and Death Notices
from Weekly Newspapers, 1818 - 1865, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania, Volume 1 (McKeesport, Penna., typescript, 1963).

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Agnes Campbell Tomichek, Marriage and Death Notices from Newspapers, 1808 - 1921, not all inclusive, Westmoreland County, PA. Compiled and typed by Mary Jane Mains. Greensburg, PA: Westmoreland County Historical Society, 1988.

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Mary Jane Mains, compiler, Newspaper Accounts of Births, Marriages and Deaths, 1808-1929 (not all inclusive), Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania (Greensburg: Westmoreland County Historical Society, 1994).

lots of overlap in those three books, if I remember  right. Mains was more complete, but didn't have my gg grandmother's marriage, which the other two did.

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Index to Wills of Westmoreland Co., PA
Vol. 1-9, 1773-1896, compiled and published by Clossin of Apollo, PA
"As recorded in Will Books I-IX, of the County Courthouse"

the wills are indexed somewhere on line, maybe ancestry or maybe the county site itself. I know I saw them somewhere recently. So no need to find that book.

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here's another one that has probably been put online by now:
Tax Lists, Westmoreland County, PA, 1786- 1810, edited by William Dumont (Washington, D.C.,: National Genealogical Society, Special Publication No. 33, 1968)

tax lists fill in the years between censuses. If someone, maybe a grown son, disappears between censuses, the tax lists might help you figure out when he left the area.

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this is probably at archive.org. find it free, it is long since out of copyright in the US and should be there or maybe google books.

History of the County of Westmoreland, Pa., with Biographical Sketches, etc., edited by G. D. Albert (Philadelphia: Everts & Co., 1882)

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just found these, haven't looked through them. keep for future reference
https://www.germanroots.com/penngermans.html
https://www.germanroots.com/index.html

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Pennsylvania German pioneers; a publication of the original lists of arrivals in the port of Philadelphia from 1727 to 1808
https://archive.org/details/pennsylvaniagerm42stra

There is another transcription of the baptism records: Paul Miller Ruff's German Church Records, Westmoreland Co., Pennsylvania

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if you don't find the family by searching the passenger lists at familysearch.org or ancestry.com, try here. It is a little harder to work with, but it had my German ancestor's arrival in Phila.
https://immigrantships.net/

They could easily have arrived in Philadelphia, or possibly Baltimore, if there destination was Westmoreland Co. Not everyone arrived in New York.

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based on their birth years, both Christian and his wife could have been born in America. You might need to find their parents before looking for arrivals. Can you find Rose or Boyer families in the area? If not, try farther east in Pennsylvania, since the general migration was east to west.
There's a good chance they were Palatine Germans, lots of them in Pa. and they were fleeing in the mid 1700's . SW Germany, if I remember right.

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If you run into Jacob, Joseph, or John Kern, that's us. Joseph was my ancestor, the other two were brothers. John was in Hempfield Twp, I'm pretty sure. Joseph was in town, I think. All three were born in York, York County, Pa, to Jacob Kern who was the immigrant.  Same time frame as your Christian, so that is why I'm guessing he was born in the US, not Germany.


Offline haney

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Re: CHRISTIAN ROSE and Family Westmoreland PA
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 21 January 23 20:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Thank you for that "amazing" reply and information.  I have actually printed it out and am reading through it all. 

Firstly lots to chase up on with this family and yes what I do have so far re census in Westmoreland for Christian (and Catherine) ROSE is:-

1810 Hempfield Westmoreland Total of 6 Household members:
UNDER 10: 3
45 and over: 1
FEMALES Under 10: 1
Females 45 and over: 1

1820 Census in Redbank Westmoreland
Household of 7
Two males under 10
One male  10-15
One male over 45
One female under 10
One female 10-15
One female over 45

1828 Christian ROSE dies (legal document) Mentions all of the children and also he owned a tract of land in Hempfield Twp, along Murraysville Road adjoining the lands of Rudolph Lougher, Altman, and Klngersmith.


1830 Census Three Rose families in Hempfield

1) CATHERINE with 5 in the household
2) CHRISTIAN with 4 in the household (I assume this is the son 1802-1888)
3) HENRY with 2 in the household


I will have to track down any tax lists to fill in gaps and find the 1800 census to relook at it and to  see how many Roses (Roos/e) are in the area in 1790.

I have sent an email to the Baltzer-Myer museum.  They could have some records as they have "family files" which I'm sure you have used.

I have tried to contact the Westmoreland Orphans court to find the probate record of Catherine ROSE who died in 1848.  It may not help with the families origins but I would like to have it anyway.

There seems to a problem with my emails when I send them to Westmoreland they bounce back to me.

I have also contacted the Westmoreland Historical Society as they maybe able to check the various books that could contain information on the family.  No word from the historical society as yet.

Will keep plugging away and see how far I get.

I would love to find a probate record that mentions CHRISTIAN as a son (intermarried with CATHERINE BYER/BEYER).

Possibly Christians father could be a Jacob or a Solomon??  Anyway that is where I am at the moment. Many thanks Dianna



Offline oldohiohome

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Re: CHRISTIAN ROSE and Family Westmoreland PA
« Reply #5 on: Monday 23 January 23 18:24 GMT (UK) »
In 1810 Christian is listed on the census between 3 Clinglesmith families
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XH2N-3WL
In 1820 he is listed just before a Klingensmith, and there are two others on the page.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHG7-MPV
1830 Catherine, right after David Klingensmith
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHPK-LZY
1840 Solomon, near D Klingensmith
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHB7-B8N
1860 - Solomon was without a farm.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MXRV-H6N

so who is
Jacob Rose, 1790 Hempfield Twp
transcribed as Rise
1 male over 16
3 females
-> listed between two Clinglesmiths
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHK5-5FT

Check some of the other names on the Jacob's page in 1790 and Christian's in 1810 and see if any others match. Maybe Christian took over Jacob's farm. If so, is Jacob his father?  Then add in Samuel Ross, parent of John Samuel  Ross born and baptized 1830 on the Lutheran Church records. Could he be Christian's brother?

1800 is in alphabetical order and I didn't see anyone named Ross or Rose. I wonder where they were?

There were 3 men named Rosasteal, for what that is worth. I never heard the name before and it doesn't show up on a  Google search. And the only three results at familysearch for all countries at all time,  is these 3 men in 1800.

-----------------
Christian and Catherine (Beyer) Rose's son Christopher in 1880:
1880, Gilpin Twp, Armstrong Co
Christ Rose, 77, farmer, born in Westmoreland, father in Saxony, mother in Westmoreland, PA
Elizabeth, 77, , born in Westmoreland, father in Saxony, mother in Westmoreland, PA
Solomon 42, born Armstrong Co
Andrew 20, born Armstrong Co
Henry 38, born Armstrong Co
Henry's family
David 40, born Armstrong Co
David's family
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MW6G-VSX

So not a Palatine family, and arriving later than I suggested in the earlier post.
If you can find any other of the children in 1880, it might back this up. But with the specific "Saxony" mentioned here, I'd go with this first, even if the others say the older Christian was born in Pennsylvania.

-------------
I found this man along the way, but Wheatfield Twp, Westmoreland Co, became part of Armstrong County in 1800, and I don't think Hempstead Twp borders it. So he might not be connected. Just including him here in case.
Jaconias Rose, 1800, Wheatfield Twp
1 male under 10
1 male 10 to 15
2 males 16 to 25
1 male over 45
3 females under 10
1 female 10 to 15
1 female 26 to 45

Aron Rose
1 male 16 to 25
1 female 16 to 25

alphabetically listed
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHR6-5W7

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: CHRISTIAN ROSE and Family Westmoreland PA
« Reply #6 on: Monday 23 January 23 18:44 GMT (UK) »
In 1860 Solomon was in the household of Nathan Laughner. Solomon's wife and children are farther down the page with another Laughner family.

They are here, near the Laughners, in 1850. But without his own farm.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M4ZZ-91Q
Did one of his daughter marry a Laughner?

Offline haney

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Re: CHRISTIAN ROSE and Family Westmoreland PA
« Reply #7 on: Monday 23 January 23 20:14 GMT (UK) »
HI thank you once again.  I am going through all of this now.  This JACOB RISE?ROSE could be promising seeing as Christian and Catherines first? son is JACOB. Hmm worth following up.

Yes seems Solomons daughter Martha married a Nathaniel LOUGHNER  also Solomons sister Christiana married a GEORGE LOUGHNER.  There could be other connections there!

Can't wait to see if this Jacob on the Census is Christians Dad.  I will have to hunt for a possible deed/probate record to see for Jacob, that would be great.

I noticed there is a Hannah ROSE living in the house of a Josiah LOUGHNER and a Jacob ROSE b 1837 and a Simon ROSE b 1840 on the 1860 Census.

Very interesting.  Many thanks more to follow up on now.  Regards Dianna