Seeking info on John Robinson of Tullyraine who married Rose McCann Oct-10-1851

[Alan of Kaslo]

Greetings.

I made this thread to collect and share information about John Robinson , weaver of Tullyraine who married Rose McCann on October 10th 1851 (clip attached). This couple had my grandmother Sarah on April 31 1854.   

Sarah's birth
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sbQlfsyUyFv-KusjNpqV_E-yrue4K-Ao/view?usp=share_link

Here's Sarah's wedding that mentions John Robinson
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/10999/8021177.pdf

Things known about John Robinson:

-married Rose McCann 1851
-was a weaver from Tullyraine
-lived at Clare / Coose at some point
-had children Edward 1852 , Sarah 1854 , Mary 1857, Thomas 1859

Things unknown about John Robinson :

-date/location of birth
-parents
-death date/cert

For some time I have been running under the assumption that this is Rose McCann's death cert:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06432/4848108.pdf

Same doc from my drive:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G6rFH9hguxfRd8fQVWQv-iqkVrG2rBIm/view?usp=share_linky

That would make Rose McCann born about 1831... a few years before the records start in 1833. That led me to look for possible siblings. With Gadget's help in the translation section we found a likely sister for Rose named Mary Ann.

She appears as a sponsor for the birth of Sarah Robinson 1854.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zpmr_BFWJQ-WRciRLGqNE_or_h4n60Pn/view?usp=share_link

Then Mary Ann marries John Conlon 1855 ande: the sponsors are John & Rose Robinson.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gTC71LDRBzhDYcQxP9UC3SICOPYDay9E/view?usp=share_link

Mary Anne   McCANN   .   Tullylish & Seapatrick   married John Conlon of Ballylough 21 Feb 1855 at a Tullylish Catholic Church ; mother of Sarah bpt. 11 Feb 1857 at a Tullylish Catholic Church & Joseph b. 1873 (regd. Banbridge)

Feeling good about Mary Ann being a sibling of Rose. I didn't see Mary Ann in the Tullylish records that start in 1833 but there is a Mary Jane born in 1833 to a John and Mary McCann. I already wrote about it in the translation section... I made this thread here so I wouldn't have to disturb the fine folks at translation.

link here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=869610.0


I don't know if Mary Ann and Mary Jane 1833 are the same person. I could only find a handful of McCann births in Tullylish between 1833 and 1844. Most were by this couple:

John
McCANN   .   Seapatrick   husband of Mary Trousdel ; father of George bpt. 10 Apr 1843 at a Tullylish & Banbridge Catholic Church (2 entries)

Again, I don't know if any of the children of John and Mary McCann are siblings of Rose and Mary Ann. I was hoping to find some clues to possibly link the sisters to John and Mary (or other parents).

Any comments or information would be greatly appreciated. Finding John and Rose's parents would be great but i' also interested in any info I can find along the way.

Thanks in advance.

[Alan of Kaslo]

I should add one thing. I did find a death for a John Robinson at Clare on April 23 1861 (attached clip). That would be sad if it was him as he had a son Thomas in 1859 as well as other young children.

Page it came from - entry is on the right near the bottom April 23 1861
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633254#page/62/mode/1up

*edit*  I did just now find another John Robinson who died in Clare Nov 9th 1874. Can't find the document that goes with it on NIdirect or irishgenealogy but do see it listed in the Tullylish register (attached).

The death cert of Rose Robinson nee McCann in 1881 stated she was a widow by then. I'll try again to find a John Robinson born 1850-1861 to see if the first John above might be a child that died.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Death for John Robinson of Clare, aged 78, weaver, in 1874. Married.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020647/7244895.pdf

[Alan of Kaslo]

Elwyn! Thank you very much. I thought I had searched for that but could not find it. It's great to see! There it is ...

It raises some questions.

His age for starters makes him born about 1796. I highly doubt John is 35 years older than Rose McCann. Which leads me to believe that the Rose who died in 1881 at age 50 is not the right Rose. Unless there was a clerical error and she was closer to 80.

Then there is Helen Robinson present at John's death...

That is interesting. It doesn't say she is John's widow (could still be though). Could be a daughter or niece. I don't see many Helen Robinson's marrying or dying in the area. Maybe you could work or magic again Elwyn! 

No Helen Robinson's in this list:
https://rosdavies.com/SURNAMES/R/RobinsonAJ.htm

The first child we know of for John and Rose is Sarah 1854 and then the last child is Thomas 1859. Either John Robinson married at age 55 and had Thomas at 63 ... or this John Robinson is the senoir and there is a younger John , also a weaver of Clare , may have died in 1861 , whom had married Rose  McCann. John sr. & Helen could also be married.

I did search the Tullylish registers extensively. The only John Robinsons I saw from 1833 start to 1880 were the 2 deaths in Clare and the rest references to John and Mary McCann.

*edit* But ... when I go back and look there are actually more John Robinsons that I missed.

One thing for sure is Clare and Tullyrain are side by side. Not sure about these other John Robinsons location.

Clare:
https://www.townlands.ie/down/iveagh-lower-upper-half/tullylish/tullylish/clare/

Tullyrain:
https://www.townlands.ie/down/iveagh-lower-upper-half/tullylish/magherally/tullyrain/

I didn't have this list in the past. Now realizing there were at least 5 John Robinsons in Tullylish at the time.

https://rosdavies.com/SURNAMES/R/RobinsonAJ.htm

Thanks.

[Elwyn Soutter]

Can’t help with Helen Robinson. (Helen & Ellen are interchangeable in Ireland, so you need to check the Ellens too). But I looked for a death/marriage but couldn’t see who she might be.

I had a look at the Valuation Revision records to see who succeeded John Robinson in Clare (plot 132c), in the hope that his widow’s name might appear but it did not.  He was eventually replaced by Henry McInerney. I looked at the deaths 1874 onwards but did not find a suitable widow in Clare. However she might have moved. There were certainly several weaver’s widows in the area.

John didn’t leave a will so no help there.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Thanks so much Elwyn for that 1874 John Robinson death cert find! It really helps. For me it narrows down the possibilities of which John's are from Clare. Which turns out to be two. In 1860 both were alive and in Clare/Tullyraine. Not a huge stretch to think they were father and son. Now to prove it 

I looked at the deaths 1874 onwards but did not find a suitable widow in Clare. However she might have moved

That would jive with his widow having died in Coose in 1881. I already knew her daughter Sarah and her husband lived at Coose. On the death cert of Rose Robinson it says Sarah was present. I had high confidence that this document this document was my family... but I was perplexed by Roses age of 50. Two John's at Clare explains this perfectly.

Death of Rose Robinson 1881 Coose
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06432/4848108.pdf

[Alan of Kaslo]

Now realizing by widow you meant Helen not Rose.

 Anyhow ... not sure what happened to Helen Robinson.

If I go to askaboutireland and search the valuations for John Robinson I see one from Tullylish. Nothing for Rose Robinson or any widow.

Then I found this list which is different. Not sure what year it is from exactly  It says 1848-1864 when you go to click the link from the banner.

https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/down/tullylish.php

It has a Rose Robinson in Clare and 2 Johns...one John in Clare and the other Lenaderg.

Presumably after 1861 death of John and before the 1874 death of the senoir John.

*edit* I searched it up and that list with Rose is Griffiths Valuation: Tullylish Parish 1863 and 1864

[Alan of Kaslo]

So it's official. My grandfather John Robinson who married Rose McCann definitely died at Clare April 23 1861. His widow took over title of the land for a time before moving to Coose before she died in 1881.

It's likely that John Robinson weaver of Clare who died 1874 is father of John Robinson weaver of Clare who died 1861 but no solid proof of such found yet.

Helen Robinson is probably John's wife but could also be a relative. I tried searching for all Robinson women of any name that died between 1874 and 1894 in Banbridge ... found a couple widows of weavers in Clare, but none to a John. Nothing under Helen and no interesting Ellens that I could see. I checked all age-appropriate female Robinsons who died in those years and came up empty.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Regarding Helen Robinson...

I found a baptism 24 May 1835 for an Eleanor Robinson born to a John. It's just in Tullylish , it does not specify where.

The mother is also an Eleanor.

John Robinson who died in 1874 with the witness present Helen would have been born 1796. Checking rosdavies I see this:

John   ROBINSON   .   Tullylish   husband of Eleanor McGiveran ; father of Eleanor bpt. 24 May 1835 & James bpt. 30 Jan 1838 at a Tullylish Catholic Church

I tried looking up Owen Kennedy , the witness from the attached clip but couldn't see him. Was hoping he could place John's location. Other names are right around Clare such as Samuel Toman at Bleary.

Page the snip came from 1835 baptisms Tullylish:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633252#page/18/mode/1up