Author Topic: Probate for Joseph Nodder who died 1904 while on a trip to Canada  (Read 468 times)

Offline TadlowNewell

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Probate for Joseph Nodder who died 1904 while on a trip to Canada
« on: Thursday 02 February 23 20:32 GMT (UK) »
This Joseph Nodder was a manager of Boiler/Flue division of the John Brown and Co. Atlas Ironworks in Sheffield in 1880s/1890s. i.e. senior and presumably fairly well-off. He died 23 Aug 1904 while on a trip to Canada (Oshawa, Ontario). He had no children and was estranged from his wife (Emily nee Williams). I can find an obituary in Sheffield local papers. 

I feel sure that he would have had property/money which would have to be dealt with after his death but I cannot find any entry in the UK Probate Register for 1904/1905. Does the fact that the death occurred in Canada, not in UK, mean that probate etc was carried out in Canada (surely not!) or is there a 'special' separate location/index I don't know about for probates for overseas deaths?  ... or is it possible there is just no Probate at all. If so, where would the money go? Does the government snaffle it?

Online Comberton

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Re: Probate for Joseph Nodder who died 1904 while on a trip to Canada
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 02 February 23 22:35 GMT (UK) »
Have you seen this?



Offline mckha489

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Re: Probate for Joseph Nodder who died 1904 while on a trip to Canada
« Reply #2 on: Friday 03 February 23 06:28 GMT (UK) »
Have you worked your way through these on Family search. I don’t believe they have been indexed so you have to take a stab and work out where you need to start looking.

Probate records and marriage licence bonds, 1291-1944 (Dean & Chapter of Norwich)

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/625447?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Offline amondg

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Re: Probate for Joseph Nodder who died 1904 while on a trip to Canada
« Reply #3 on: Friday 03 February 23 07:41 GMT (UK) »
The death in Canada says he is a Widower/gentleman. Died of heart disease and dropsy.


ADDED
If his wife was still alive and they were not divorced most likely she inherited


Offline amondg

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Re: Probate for Joseph Nodder who died 1904 while on a trip to Canada
« Reply #4 on: Friday 03 February 23 07:59 GMT (UK) »
On the same boat as Joseph and Emily (20 October 1877) is a Martha Nodder going to the same destination.

Brothers and sisters would also have a claim on the estate,

ADDED

1911 census Canada
His father Joseph age 85 and his sister Martha 55 are living at Victoria Street mentioned in the newspaper notice.

If he had been living with his parents and sister in Canada his probate would have occurred in Canada with a notification made in England in case he left debts behind. 

Offline softly softly

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Re: Probate for Joseph Nodder who died 1904 while on a trip to Canada
« Reply #5 on: Friday 03 February 23 09:19 GMT (UK) »
He appears to have been living in Victoria Street when his death was recorded.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q93-C9YJ-YS77-Q?i=120&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJK8J-6P1

John

Offline TadlowNewell

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Re: Probate for Joseph Nodder who died 1904 while on a trip to Canada
« Reply #6 on: Friday 03 February 23 20:49 GMT (UK) »
Thanks all for the suggestions. I didn't have the press cutting asking for anyone with claims on the estate to pipe up. Interesting. Thanks.

AMONDG suggests probate would have been in Canada if Joseph was living there. However, per his obituary he died while merely on a trip there to visit his father and for his health. His residence was Fulwood Rd Sheffield, as per the press cutting Comberton posted.

I'm going to look at the non-indexed probate records in Family Search Catalog suggested by MCKHA489. I am familiar with this rabbit hole and have spent many fruitless hours hunting through the millions of scans there, unearthing the occasional diamond.   

I know quite a bit about the lives of Joseph's parents, Joseph Elias and his wife. They were Plymouth Brethren and lived in Oshawa for 30+ years. Joseph Elias died after his son (in 1914). Quite possibly his strict inward-looking religion would preclude him inheriting from non-Brethren. (I'm guessing).

Also, sister Martha was involved with the BHC (https://canadianbritishhomechildren., .com) and accompanied several children to Canada, including Martha and Jessie Gott. Martha died 1917 in Canada.

I also know about Joseph's wife, Emily. They were living separately by 1891 Census. After Joseph died in 1904 she ended up in Eccleshall Bierlow Workhouse. In 1911 Census she is in Chesterfield workhouse. In 1913 there are press cuttings related to a court case after she tried to drown herself. Here is one quote

"Mrs Nodder, whose appearance and speech suggest that she has seen better days, was again brought before the Chesterfield Borough Bench to-day.
Chief Constable Kilpatrick said the woman, who formerly lived in Sheffield, had been in Chesterfield for five or six years, and during the early part of that period she had received an allowance from her husband, who had emigrated from Sheffield to America. Latterly, however, she had been thrown on her own resources and had earned a precarious livelihood by hawking. She had occasionally, when existence had become more than usually difficult, gone into the Workhouse, and the climax arrived on Friday, when she tried to drown herself in the River Hipper near to Clayton Street, Chesterfield. Her remark to him afterwards was that she "had not the courage to do it."


Emily died 1915 in Chesterfield Workhouse. Clearly, therefore, she did not inherit Joseph's estate, even if she had good legal claim.

I shall keep hunting... Thanks again

Offline jonw65

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Re: Probate for Joseph Nodder who died 1904 while on a trip to Canada
« Reply #7 on: Friday 03 February 23 22:42 GMT (UK) »
Joseph Nodder's will and the associated documents are on FamilySearch, among their unindexed records.
Proved 11 January 1905 in the Surrogate Court of the County of Ontario.
No. 3892
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3JV-59SZ-8

Here is the will itself on image 1970
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3JV-5YNZ

A copy is also in the court registers here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-F3CK-693C-Q

Use "tools" to get the images the right way round!

Offline jonw65

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Re: Probate for Joseph Nodder who died 1904 while on a trip to Canada
« Reply #8 on: Friday 03 February 23 23:00 GMT (UK) »
Also, sister Martha...Martha died 1917 in Canada.

Martha Nodder, Spinster. Late of Whitby, Ontario.
Will proved 20 March 1917
Papers start here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-L3JV-T94H-T

Will on image 1621
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3JV-T94H-Q

Another copy in the registers, see also previous image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-X3CK-DLG7

Everything can be downloaded.