William Altree-Williams appearing from nowhere

[heywood]

That’s the 1901 census address too 

[heywood]

The marriage certificate would give you his father’s name and the witness names might help.

[brigidmac]

Amazing how much you have all found
Yes i.ll send for the marriage certificate

But I do believe that Charles William ALTREE
is the same person as William Altree-Williams
+ William Altree WILLIAMS

Not surprised that his wife would be a dressmaker .her sisters were very adept too & .one of her eldest  neices became a dresser at Liverpool theatre and one of her youngest nephews ( my grandfather) was a dab hand with his sewing machine .

I don't doubt that there was a long line of  Altree-Williams
But I'm suspicious that  someone has altered family search to fit their theory

* Deleted part 

[heywood]

I agree re Charles/William.

However the marriage of Susannah Leicester was to William Altree Williams.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F362-2G8

[brigidmac]

Thanks Heywood
I was just going to post that I'd found confirmation of that marriage.

And I'm coming round to the idea that
They were the parents of my guy
William Altree Williams senior was a plumber painted

I can't find the information that I found that seemed to disprove Sarah Leicester being the mother.

They had child who died young with an interesting name Lester/Leicester Mason  Williams

I'm still not sure about the hyphen
most records before 1900  have middle name.Atlree

[brigidmac]

I'm always interested in children's names
Here William + Margaret's eldest son is Charles Edgar  and he only names his 6th son William

No evidence of 2 brothers 1called
 Charles William Altree Williams B 1875 so far + other plain William..

The  middle name Edgar comes from Margaret Jane Smith s father

[brigidmac]

Re reply21 & 29

Both
Margaret s baptism as WILLIAMS 1903
+ Franks baptism as  ALTREE 1905
We're from 2 Penrith street collymore
So that's another indication that it's same person

Lisa
Charles William ALTREE  of Fowler street is most likely the same person  maybe that version of his name suited the music shop more .

Looks like the man had many different jobs
In Australia 1915 he worked with tyres ( from Leslie's baptism

Haven't found babtisms for all the children

[brigidmac]

Before sending off for certificates I have contacted a DNA match grandchild of Frank Altree Williams
To see if they  know about these name changes .the music profession and if they have relevent  certificates

Also sent a link to this topic .

Thanks to all your wonderful and speedy contributions
( I did manage to get family search on my phone in the end.  Thanks Ray you are right it is well researched  )

Thanks for the records Cas  .I needed to see if  Altree was included in the surname or asa middle name .it's not always clear even on original documents like the shipping record

[Aus325]

Im descended from Joseph Williams and Elizabeth Altree of Shropshire, married at Wolverhampton in Mar 1816. In my case - via their 2nd son Thomas Williams (1825-1909). In our family the middle name 'Altree' was very consistantly used all the way down the generations even to my father who had it as his middle name. It occured in both male and females in this family although it never become a two-barrelled surname as it did with Thomas' older brother - William (1822-1869) line. Our family had lost the specific reason for using the Altree name, only that it was something significant. I've yet to find the reason of the significance of the Altree name to the descendants of Joseph and Elizabeth. Elizabeth did have a 2 x great uncle John Turnpenny-Altree (1736-1798) who sailed as assistant surgeon with the first fleet to NSW in 1787 but this seems an unlikely reason as he wasn't exactly a great success in that endeavor

I did a lot of work on the Altree Williams tree some years ago on familysearch. It appears that it was the children of William Altree Williams (1874-1961) who made it a two-barrelled surname. William b.1874 was certainly the son of William A Williams and Susannah Leicester as confirmed in the 1961 death index [WILLIAMS, WILLIAM ALTREE 18119/1961 WILLIAM, SUZANNA, SYDNEY]. He had moved to Sydney Aus by 1915 with his wife Margaret Jane (nee Smith) 1880-1958 and eight children, adding another two sons - Leslie & George in 1916 & 1918. The first child born in Lancashire was Selina Green (1900-1971) next was Charles Edgar Altree-Williams (1902–1973) who died at Wollongong. [ALTREE-WILLIAMS, CHARLES EDGAR 71283/1973 WILLIAM,  MARGARET JANE, WOLLONGONG] .