Author Topic: 1676 Testament Dative - need help deciphering some words  (Read 268 times)

Offline Zacktyr

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1676 Testament Dative - need help deciphering some words
« on: Thursday 23 February 23 23:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I have 98% of a Testament Dative transcribed but I am stumped by several words in one section of the Will.

I have added a screenshot of the section that's giving me problems and have highlighted the troublesome words with yellow.  Time is 1676. 

Any help deciphering these words is greatly appreciated.  Thank you.
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline GR2

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Re: 1676 Testament Dative - need help deciphering some words
« Reply #1 on: Friday 24 February 23 00:55 GMT (UK) »
...desyreing the samen to be insert and reg[ist]rat in the bookes of the s[ai]d com[m]issariot That thers precepts & exe[    ] maye pas & be direct heirupon in manner & conforme to the claus of reg[ist]ra[tio]ne wnderwr[itti]n q[hai]rof the tennor follows I William Cochrane...

...desiring the same to be inserted and registered in the books of the said commissariot that these precepts and ex[   ] may pass and be directed (= addressed) hereupon in manner and in conformity with the clause of registration underwritten whereof the tenor follows I William Cochrane...

Offline goldie61

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Re: 1676 Testament Dative - need help deciphering some words
« Reply #2 on: Friday 24 February 23 01:56 GMT (UK) »
I can't add any more to GR2's excellent transcription, bit I was very interested to see this is a testament for a William Cochrane.
Where did he live?
I have Cochrans in and around Strathaven in Lanarkshire back into the 1600s.
I've seen the name William Cochrane crop up many times, though not actually found a William directly related.
It would be interesting to see if this might be someone from the family.

Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: 1676 Testament Dative - need help deciphering some words
« Reply #3 on: Friday 24 February 23 03:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi, GR2,

Many thanks, again, for your assistance with this group of words.  I've learned a lot from your assistance or should I say, tutelage.  I was surprised that I did as well with the rest of this particular document and now these words will let me put this one to bed.  Thank you, so much.  I do greatly appreciate your assistance.
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE


Offline Zacktyr

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Re: 1676 Testament Dative - need help deciphering some words
« Reply #4 on: Friday 24 February 23 03:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi, goldie61,

This is the Testament Dative of John Barbour of Holmes in Lochwinnoch, Renfrewshire.  William Cochrane pops up at the end of this Will, almost as an afterthought.  William may be related to a James Cochrane in Jamilmuir that owed John money on a bond he had apparently given John dated 11 December 1653 for long overdue rent plus penalties.

The portion of this Will that relates to William Cochrance is:
"I William Cochrane portioner of Jamilmuirs be th[e]s[e] pr[e]s[en]tts b(o)unds and obleisst me my aires and exec[ut]ors as ca[utio]nner and soberlie acted in the
bookes of the commissariot of Glesgow. "

So, his place of residence is the same as James Cochrane's and it appears he has become bound and obligated to the widow but it is not specified if he was obligated to pay the debt owed by James Cochrane.  Neither is there any relationship of James and William specified, although I would think it fairly close as they are living in the same place.

Sorry I can't be of more help than this. 
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline goldie61

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Re: 1676 Testament Dative - need help deciphering some words
« Reply #5 on: Friday 24 February 23 04:40 GMT (UK) »
Ah. I think some way from my Cochranes in Strathaven.
There were a lot of them about!  :)
Thanks for replying anyway.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline GR2

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Re: 1676 Testament Dative - need help deciphering some words
« Reply #6 on: Friday 24 February 23 07:19 GMT (UK) »

"I William Cochrane portioner of Jamilmuirs be th[e]s[e] pr[e]s[en]tts b(o)unds and obleisst me my aires and exec[ut]ors as ca[utio]nner and soberlie acted in the
bookes of the commissariot of Glesgow. "


Could you post this bit in the original? Jamilmuirs sounds very odd as a Scottish place name.

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: 1676 Testament Dative - need help deciphering some words
« Reply #7 on: Friday 24 February 23 18:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi, GR2,

I've attached two screen shots on one attachment and highlighted both.  The first one is the abode of James Cochrane and the second is the abode of William Cochrane.  They are both so similar that I settled on a combination of the two. 
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline GR2

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Re: 1676 Testament Dative - need help deciphering some words
« Reply #8 on: Friday 24 February 23 19:17 GMT (UK) »
Although it does look as if the initial letter of the place name is I/J, I think it's actually a form of T - Tandilmur / Tannilmoire. The link below is to a map of 1636 - 52 which shows Tandlemuir. It still appears on modern maps as Tandlemuir.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/00000676

If you go to the large loch at the bottom left hand side (with Lochwinoch written in it) and go a little north from there you will see Tandlemuir.

Here it is in a slightly more accurate 19th century map.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.0&lat=55.81484&lon=-4.64682&layers=205&b=1