John Copperthwaite and Caroline Webb

[Ladyhawk]

John WHITE was 2 weeks old on the 1851 census.  The birth registration for your John was posted earlier.

COPPITHWAITE, JOHN       WEBB 
GRO Reference: 1851  J Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 02  Page 564

I think it is just confusion with the name on the census as all other details match.

Debra 

Sorry still not clear on this.

Is there a 1851 census? I can't find it if there is. Could someone send me a link or directions on how to find it?

Thanks

Trace

Debra posted the link below

In 1851 they are at the same address as John's baptism, but with the surname WHITE.

https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:SGX5-VBS

Debra 

EDIT to add the reference details

HO107 Piece number 1551 Folio 425 Page 65 Schedule 293

Harris Court, Ratcliff, Stepney, London & Middlesex

John   White   Head   1819 Laborer   Hampshire
Caroline White   Wife     1823 Reigate, Surrey
Ann   White   Visitor 1848 Finsbury, Middlesex
John   White   Son     1851 Ratcliff, Middlesex

[QueenoftheWest]

Not sure whether you know how to find this?

COPPITHWAITE, JOHN       WEBB 
GRO Reference: 1851  J Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 02  Page 564

The General Register Office (GRO) has a searchable index for birth and death registrations:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

You must make an account, but it is free to search. That is where John found this birth registration from 1851, which provides a mother's maiden name of Webb.

Just thought I would add this, in case you are not aware.

Queenie 

[T.White]

Ok thanks everyone.

I think I'm getting it now. sorta.

So many spelling mistakes and then they go and change their name to White. What the heck.

Do you think the birth place on the 1851 census Harlsey Hampshire could actually be Yately or Yateley Hampshire? I googled Harlsey and nothing came up.

Trace

[Pennines]

Trace - this is nothing to do with your actual query - but when I first started doing family history - I assumed that census records would be accurate - but quickly realised it was not so.

Many of our ancestors could not read or write - hence the enumerator of each households' record would write down what he THOUGHT he heard them say.
These individual forms were then transferred to census pages - when the scribe copied what he though he SAW from the enumerator's handwriting.
THEN - much later these census pages were transcribed on to computer records - with the transcriber writing what he/she THOUGHT they saw.

Hence several opportunities for errors. Almost the sames applies when people transcribed Parish Registers from the old handwriting - onto computer records - again transcribing what they thought they SAW.

Regarding ages - back in the day - people had no real reason to remember their ages. They didn't celebrate special birthdays as we do today - they didn't receive a pension at a certain age. Why should they remember how old they were? Always use a plus or minus after a suspected birth year.

For searching names 'wildcards' are useful - ie an asterisk at the beginning of a name to replace the first few letters - OR to replace letters at the end of a name.

To use a christian name as an example - say Margaret - try using Marg* or for a surname which could be mis-spelt, like your Copperthwaite - try Cop* etc. (I know that wouldn't have found your White spelling in 1851 -- but it's just a general tip.)

I know that once I realised that spellings could vary - it made a great difference to me in my searches. For example I have Illingworth ancestors. My Great Grandmother was clearly trying to be 'posh' when relating her surname to the enumerator and it came out as 'Hillingsworth'!! I found it using *worth in the surname field.

[Ladyhawk]

I have found a 1861 census but not a 1851

Is this the 1861 census you have?

5 Susannah Row, Stepney
John Copperwaite   42   Head Hampshire, labourer
Caroline Copperwaite   33   Wife Reigate, charwoman
John Copperwaite   10   Son Ratcliffe
Hannah Copperwaite   6   Daughter
Maria Copperwaite   3   Daughter
George Copperwaite   1   Son
William Copperwaite   5 weeks Son Ratcliffe

Looks as if their surname is WHITE on 1871 census same address as 1861

Piece   546 Folio   97 Page number   32
5 Susanah Row Stepney
Caroline White   43   widow Head, Reigate Surrey, Charwoman
William White   10   Son Ratcliffe
Thomas White   8   Son   ditto

Edit to add their births are registered as Copperthwaite

COPPERTHWAITE, WILLIAM       mmn WEBB 
GRO Reference: 1861  J Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 01C  Page 481

COPPERTHWAITE, THOMAS       mmn WEBB 
GRO Reference: 1863  S Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 01C  Page 457



   

[Ladyhawk]

This is interesting appears to be the burial of John & Caroline’s son George

Copperthwaite, (White) George age 46
Death 21 Jun 1906 Stepney Mile End Old Town Union, Tower Hamlets
London, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-2003

and George on 1881 census

George Copperwaite Age:   26
Where born:   Ratcliff, Middlesex, England
Street Address:   14 Manning St
Marital status:   Married
Occupation:   Ships Lab (...)
Registration District:   Stepney
ED, institution, or vessel:   9
Piece:   466
Folio:   119
Page Number:   26

Wife Harriet Copperwaite   21
Daughter Harriet Copperwaite   2
Boarder Caroline Black 62 widow occ charwoman - surname is BLOCK

Brought forward from an earlier post

Caroline Copperthwaite, widow, Bethnal Green
Father Joseph WEBB deceased
Marriage 25 Nov 1876 St James the Great, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets
Spouse:    Epharim BLOCK

Edit - Possible death
Caroline Block age 80
Admission date 8 Oct 1897 date of death 30 Nov 1898
Stepney Mile End Old Town Union, Tower Hamlets
London, England, Church of England Deaths and Burials, 1813-2003

[Neale1961]

You will see on the baptism for John Coperthwaite Apr 1851, the address is 4 Harris Court Ratcliff 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:68DL-P73C

This is the same address for the family in the 1851 census
https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:SGX5-VBS

[Ladyhawk]

I am trying to find a marriage record of a John Copperthwaite 1817/1819 born in Hampshire and Caroline Webb 1825 born in Reigate Surrey.

Their 1st child John Copperthwaite 1851 was baptized at St Dunstan and All Saints church Tower Hamlets, Stepney. I have tried Ancestry, Findmypast etc., and the uk governments BMD records with no luck and was wondering if perhaps there is no such record and I'm wasting my time looking for one.

Any ideas as to where to look?

Back to your opening post I’m also struggling to find a marriage for a John Copperthwaite to Caroline Webb - perhaps they didn’t marry 

[Neale1961]

Here are some census entries for Hannah COPPERTHWAITE
1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGKZ-BZG

1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRN6-V1M

She died in Surrey in 1874 - surname COPPERWHITE