Thomas F Watkins

[rotosis]

Hi

I have the marriage for Thomas F Watkins to Nora Ibbotson in 1942. They had a son in 1945 registered June Quarter.

I don't have the certificate of the marriage as yet. 

Thomas F Watkins was born about Jul 1918 in St Asaph, Flintshire  (or Denbighshire) North Wales. (found on Ancestry) Pontypridd, Glamorgan mothers maiden name is Jones...

I'm looking for Thomas' parents.

I found a possible grave for Thomas and Nora's son, however there are other people on another headstone in the same plot. I am not sure if they are the grandparents or parents... (which would mean I have the wrong son) If they do happen to be his parents, they were quite old parents.

Their names were Samuel Francis Watkins b. 1891 and died 1970 and Jane Elizabeth Jones who died in 1958... Apparently they married in 1919.  The son I mention was born in 1945 which is the same on the grave... this one died in 2008 aged 62... I can't find another person to match my first couple Thomas & Nora, which is why I'm trying to find out who his parents are. I can't find him on the 1921 census either...

I haven't mentioned the sons name just in case he isn't dead and in the grave I found. 

Thanks for any help anyone can give and I hope i've not confused people.

Rotosis

[Kay99]

You mention Anc so if you have access to the site have you considered this family tree on Anc where the family have returned from Austrialia where son Thomas was born  - but they were in the UK in St Asaph on the 1939 Register https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/105898468/person/382331796788/facts   But the only thing to confirm his father etc the 1942 marriage cert

Kay

[ColC]

I note the marriage in 1941 which records Thomas F Watkins, sadly the GRO Registrations
only record full middle names on births, if there is one, in this case the only birth in Wales, 1918 +/- 2 years, is below.

WATKINS, THOMAS  FRANCIS  mmn   WILLIAMS 
GRO Reference: 1916  M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 11A  Page 1455

There are no Thomas Watkins registrations in the same period in Flintshire or Denbigshire.

This is likely to be Nora.
Births Jun 1922    Ibbotson    Norah    Cooke    St.Asaph    11b   508a

Colin

[ColC]

On the 1921 census transcript on FindMyPast there is only one Thomas Francis in Wales, the birth registration above. In England there is a Thomas F (1917) in Northampton and Thomas Frank (1920)  in Greenwich.

Needless to say there are plenty Registration and 1921 censuses for a Thomas Watkins.

Colin

[softly softly]

A possible as per ColC's post,

WATKINS, THOMAS  FRANCIS     WILLIAMS 
GRO Reference: 1916  M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 11A  Page 1455

appears in 1939 with same dob as this death.

Thomas Francis Watkins
7 Jan 1916   Feb 1994       South Glamorgan   South Glamorgan   

John

[softly softly]

Again only a possible, but in 1939 Thomas F Watkins appears with a possible sister Dora V Davies, and a possible mother Gladys R(Ruth) Watkins

WATKINS, DORA  VIVIEN     WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1914  D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 11A  Page 160

Marriages Sep 1939 

Davies    Vivian I    Watkins    Cardiff    11a   876    
Watkins    Dora V    Davies    Cardiff    11a   876

Marriages Jun 1914   

WATKINS    Francis    Williams    Merthyr T.    11a   1540    
WILLIAMS    Gladys R    Watkins    Merthyr T.    11a   1540

John

[ColC]

Again only a possible, but in 1939 Thomas F Watkins appears with a possible sister Dora V Davies, and a possible mother Gladys R(Ruth) Watkins

WATKINS, DORA  VIVIEN     WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1914  D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 11A  Page 160


John

That ties in with the 1921 census for Thomas.

Colin

[softly softly]

Probably not the Thomas Francis Watkins born 1916. He appears in 1951-54 electoral registers at the same address as 1939 war register with his parents. He then marries June C Rysdale in 1954, so unless Nora has died/separated from Thomas then not our man, but I'm still not convinced

Looks as though the marriage certificate is needed .

John

[softly softly]

This is why I had reservations

Marriages Mar 1950 
 
Bayley    David P    Watkins    Falmouth    7a   66    
Bayley    David P    Ibbotson    Falmouth    7a   66   
Ibbotson    Nora    Bayley    Falmouth    7a   66    
Watkins    Norah    Bayley    Falmouth    7a   66   

John

added

Name:   Nora Ibbotson

Gender:   F (Female)
Birth Date:   8 may 1922 (8 May 1922)
Birth Place:   Rhyl, Flintshire (Rhyl), Clwyd, Wales, United Kingdom
Death Date:   14 août 1999 (14 Aug 1999)
Death Place:   Falmouth, Cornwall, England, United Kingdom
Father:   
Alan Ibbotson
Mother:   
Ellen (Nellie) Cooke
Spouse:   
Thomas F Watkins
David Pryce Bayley

2 Bayley/Ibbotson sons born 1951/3 Bedfordshire

David Pryce Bayley & Nora appear between 1951-53 Bedfordshire electoral reisters