Author Topic: will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.  (Read 836 times)

Offline Grug

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will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.
« on: Friday 24 March 23 19:37 GMT (UK) »
Trying to find birth place of Sylvia Elizabeth Stuart Sugden, born 1924 no record on free bmd she died in kent 1948 aged 24 years  She was in the pay corp either army or RAF . She does not appear in the 1939 register either.

Offline heywood

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Re: will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.
« Reply #1 on: Friday 24 March 23 20:22 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat  :)

There is a published family tree, with photo, which has her parents as John Stuart Sugden and Mary Hands.
There is also a marriage mentioned in 1945 to Frederick Bruce Risdon.

I can’t see a parent marriage or the birth but is that marriage correct? Do you have her fathers name from the marriage?
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Offline Andy J2022

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Re: will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.
« Reply #2 on: Friday 24 March 23 20:47 GMT (UK) »
To answer the question in the title, yes her service documents will show her place of birth and will include her next of kin, presumably her father. If she was in the Pay Corps, then that was the Army. Obviously the RAF also had pay staff but they weren't referred to as 'Pay Corps'

Offline CaroleW

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Re: will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.
« Reply #3 on: Friday 24 March 23 23:12 GMT (UK) »
The tree on Ancestry shows John Stuart Sugden was b 1886 Lancashire.  No such birth on freebmd but there is there is a marriage in Norfolk 25.1.1900 for a John Stuart Sugden to Hannah Elizabeth Dye.  He was a private in the 7th Hussars aged 24

Unless the 1945 marriage cert confirms her fathers name as John Stuart Sugden  - I would be wary of that info
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Offline CaroleW

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Re: will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.
« Reply #4 on: Friday 24 March 23 23:16 GMT (UK) »
John Stuart Sugden died 1929 Macclesfield aged 54
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Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline heywood

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Re: will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 25 March 23 07:36 GMT (UK) »
John Stuart Sugden died 1929 Macclesfield aged 54

That’s interesting.

There are two newspaper snippets dated 1938 where Sylvia E Sugden seems to have passed typewriting exams in Macclesfield area.
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Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 25 March 23 09:19 GMT (UK) »

The tree on Ancestry shows John Stuart Sugden was b 1886 Lancashire.  No such birth on freebmd but there is there is a marriage in Norfolk 25.1.1900 for a John Stuart Sugden to Hannah Elizabeth Dye.  He was a private in the 7th Hussars aged 24

Unless the 1945 marriage cert confirms her fathers name as John Stuart Sugden  - I would be wary of that info


John Stuart Sugden died 1929 Macclesfield aged 54


For info

The m/c gives his fathers name as Robert there is a John Sugden born Keighley with parents Robert & Maria on 1881 census. This appears to be his birth entry from GRO indexes there’s  No middle name

SUGDEN, JOHN       mmn COCKCROFT 
GRO Reference: 1873  M Quarter in KEIGHLEY  Volume 09A  Page 188

Free index 1921 census Macclesfield
John   Sugden 1871   Keighley, Yorkshire
you would need check to see who else is with him

John Sugden Age:   28
Birth Place:   Otley, Keighley
Desertion Date:   10 Mar 1901
Desertion Place:   Aldershot
Publication Date:   26 Mar 1901
Regimental Number:   4078
Military Corps:   7th Hussars

John Stewart Sugden
Record Type:   Card
Service Number:   176839
Corps, Regiment or Unit:   LC.
Title:   WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Reference Number:   3 MS.10575, 11W44836
Next of Kin: Hannah Elizabeth Sugden   Widow

Clara Rosetta Tyrrell Sugden Birth 14 Aug 1900
Baptism 7 Oct 1900 Heigham Holy Trinity
Father    John Stuart Sugden, occ soldier Mother    Hannah Elizabeth

SUGDEN, CLARA  ROSETTA TYRRELL    mmn DYE
GRO Reference: 1900  S Quarter in NORWICH  Volume 04B  Page 170


Trying to find birth place of Sylvia Elizabeth Stuart Sugden, born 1924 no record on free bmd she died in kent 1948 aged 24 years 


Her 1948 death entry Bromley Kent on GRO indexes gives Sylvia Elizabeth’s age as 25 so born 1923

A long shot could this be a possibility for her birth as Stewart not Sugden  ???

STEWART, SYLVIA  ELIZABETH     - 
GRO Reference: 1923  J Quarter in MACCLESFIELD  Volume 08A  Page 227










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Offline heywood

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Re: will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 25 March 23 09:30 GMT (UK) »
That looks good, Ladyhawk.

I had followed the Sugden and Clara who, possibly had a child in 1920 etc.
- there is a Nottingham link too, I think.
I was going to wait to hear from Grug, re the marriage details but your find looks very likely though.
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Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 25 March 23 10:22 GMT (UK) »
This birth entry could also be relevant

STEWART, LAURA  JEAN     - 
GRO Reference: 1921  M Quarter in MACCLESFIELD  Volume 08A  Page 221

Edit free index 1921 census Macclesfield using first names shows this entry

Laura Jean Hand 1921 Macclesfield, Cheshire
added
Using surname Hand Macclesfield with Laura
Mary Elizabeth   Hand 1887 South Shields, Durham

Not seeing a birth on GRO indexes for Mary Elizabeth Hand c1887 South Shields  ???

Could Mary Elizabeth Hand's birth also be registered as Stewart

STEWART, MARY  ELIZABETH   mmn HAY
GRO Reference: 1886  J Quarter in SOUTH SHIELDS  Volume 10A  Page 803   
This Mary is on 1901 census with parents James & Ann plus four siblings living 14, Reed Street, South Shields, Durham, they are at that address in 1911 but Mary is not with the family


Have crossed out info. as I think that's the wrong birth there's a Stewart/Sanderson marriage and Mary Elizabeth is with him in 1911/1921/1939 born April 1886 South Shields
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