will there be any evidence of the place of birth on army records.

[Grug]

Thank you all for your input.   On her marriage certificate to Frederick Bruce Risdon it has her father as John Sugden  Occupation Baker. She had an older sister Jean Laura who is also on the certificate as witness , this was done with her married name Williams and her husband Kilsby Williams is also  a witness.  Again Jean does not appear on the 1939 register and I cannot find her on freebmd

[osprey]

1901 census for Hannah & Rosetta visiting John's mother

https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:X9RB-8NZ

1921 census Clara Rosetta Tyrrell Sugden is in Nottingham and in the same household as
Hannah Elizabeth Sugden born 1878 Attleborough Norfolk
Mary Stuart Sugden b. 1920 Nottingham
William Dye b. 1857 Attleborough
Mary Dye b. 1861 Wymondham
Mabel Alice Dye b. 1885 Attleborough
Minnie Sophia Due b. 1887 Attleborough
Herbert Russell Dye b. 1894 Attleborough
Ada Mary Dye b. 1898 Stoke Bardolph
Edna Mary Dye b. 1915 Newark

You would expect there to more Sugden children between 1900 & 1920.








 

[osprey]

birth reg
Mary Stuart Sugden sep qtr 1920 Nottingham mmn Sugden

[heywood]

This may have some relevance to the family or may be just coincidence

London Gazette 6th October 1942

Valerie Mary Stuart Sugden - Women’s Auxiliary Airforce
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35731/supplement/4348

[Neale1961]

Following this thread with interest. (Not sure that Grug has caught up with all the information so far)

Adding a few more links:

John Stuart Sugden marriage to Hannah Elizabeth Dye – Jan 25 1900, Norwich

1901 for Sugden family
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9RB-8NC

1911 census for John Sugden & family
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWNP-YXL

Hannah Elizabeth (Dye) Sugden died 16 Jan 1934 Nottingham

Death registration:
SUGDEN, JOHN  STUART           Age 54 
GRO Reference: 1929  D Quarter in MACCLESFIELD  Volume 08A  Page 162  Occasional Copy: A

[heywood]

Ladyhawk posted some information earlier re John Sugden, Macclesfield.

1921 index
John Sugden b 1871, Keighley, Yorkshire
Mary Elizabeth Hand b 1887 South Shields
Laura Jean Hand b 1921 Macclesfield

Macclesfield births
1921 Laura J Stewart
1923 Sylvia E Stewart
Both with mmn Stewart

[Ladyhawk]

On her marriage certificate to Frederick Bruce Risdon it has her father as John Sugden Occupation Baker.

Does it say that her father is deceased?

She had an older sister Jean Laura who is also on the certificate as witness , this was done with her married name Williams and her husband Kilsby Williams is also  a witness. 

A public tree on Anc*y has following

Jean Laura Sugden Born 2 Dec 1920 not known, no registration found,
death 2007 Worcestershire

17 April 1943 Eton, Buckinghamshire
Certificate Held - Register Office wedding
father John Sugden dec'd sergeant in Royal Hussars.

They have John Sugden death year 1980  - that can’t be correct if her father John was deceased on her m/c 1943 

Again Jean does not appear on the 1939 register and I cannot find her on freebmd

Looking at FreeBMD I agree there’s no births registered for Sylvia or Jean

Sylvia Elizabeth Stuart Sugden
or
Jean Laura Stuart Sugden

I tried using just their first names and year of birth and the only two I can see are the ones I have already posted (brought forward) GRO indexes show their middle name rather than just an initial on FreeBMD

Her 1948 death entry Bromley Kent on GRO indexes gives Sylvia Elizabeth’s age as 25 so born 1923

A long shot could this be a possibility for her birth as Stewart not Sugden 

STEWART, SYLVIA  ELIZABETH     - 
GRO Reference: 1923  J Quarter in MACCLESFIELD  Volume 08A  Page 227

This birth entry could also be relevant

STEWART, LAURA  JEAN     - 
GRO Reference: 1921  M Quarter in MACCLESFIELD  Volume 08A  Page 221

Grug - the only way you can find out if these are the correct persons you are looking for is by obtaining one or both of the birth certificates.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

1921 index
John Sugden b 1871, Keighley, Yorkshire
Mary Elizabeth Hand b 1887 South Shields
Laura Jean Hand b 1921 Macclesfield

There is NO Jean Laura Sugden on 1921 index only the one above surname Hand.

I've been looking to see if I can find some sort of connection with the surname Stuart/Stewart linked with Mary Elizabeth Hand but have not found anything 

For info.

There is also this Army Record entry. on Anc*y for John Sugden who married Hannah Elizabeth Dye in 1900

John Stuart Sugden age 39 occ Groom
Marriage    25 Jan Holy Trinity Ch Norwich
Document 1915
Residence Place:   81 Palatine Road, Blackpool
Military Date:   1915
Regimental Number:   14874 Regiment Royal Fusiliers
Number of Images:   34
Form Title:   Short Service Attestation
Relation to Soldier
Hannah Elizabeth Dye   Spouse
Clara Rosetta Lyrrell Sugden Child bn 14 Aug 1900

A few details from the above record
Joined in Blackpool 17 Mar 1915

Appointed a/cpl 3.3.17 (unpaid), a/cpl 11.4.17 (paid), A/Sgt. (Paid 22.4.17)

Record Office Nottingham 24 Feb 1922
Received BW & V Medal Rgt. 176839 Labour Corp
Rank Sgt. Signature J Stuart Sugden dated 2.3.1922
1914-15 Star signed J S Sugden 26 Sếp 192?

Another form
Appeared before the Army Medical Board at this station
John Stewart Sugden No 176839 ?? Regt 327 Labour Coy
Discharge address will be Belton Villas 13 Leopold Grove Blackpool

* Insert ‘separation’, ‘dependants,’ ‘family’, or ’no’ as maybe.
The space must not be left blank
The Soldier states that * Separation allowance is being issued in respect of him
dated 28/11/17

This newspaper article may relate to John Sugden who married Hannah Elizabeth nee Dye unfortunately wife's name is not stated.

Lancashire Evening Post 14 December 1918

“This Awful Night”
Woman’s letter read in Blackpool Police Court

John Stuart Sugden, a discharged soldier, was charged this morning at Blackpool with being in arrears in respect to wife maintenance.
Acting Chief Constable said that though the man had a pension and was in work he neglected his wife for another woman, and whilst he was in custody at Manchester she wrote following letter:-
starts with 
Mr Darling Jack…………
ending with 
Oh come back to me, Jack from your wife till death.

The Clerk asked Sugden if the woman would pay for him, because if she did not he would be away from her longer. Sugden was remanded until Monday

[Millmoor]

Great work, Ladyhawk! ( In the letter you quote is it not signed "Liby", pet name for Elizabeth?).

An earlier article in the Blackpool Times, 25 Sept 1918 has this:

" John Stuard Sugden was charged at Blackpool, with deserting his wife, Annie Elizabeth Sugden, for whom Mr Callis appeared.
 
The complainant  said they were married at Norwich in 1900. The defendant was discharged from the army in 1917 and he had a pension of 22s 9d a week. When he left Blackpool he took a young lady with him. His wife had asked him to come back but he refused and asked her to get a divotce.

The magistrates granted a maintenance order of £1 a week."

Details seem to match with information provided earlier in the thread.

William

[osprey]

This may have some relevance to the family or may be just coincidence

London Gazette 6th October 1942

Valerie Mary Stuart Sugden - Women’s Auxiliary Airforce
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/35731/supplement/4348

possible 1939 register entry in Wembley for Valerie M S Sugden gives dob as 28 July 1920 so could be a match for the Mary Stuart Sugden registered sept qtr 1920 in Nottingham who is with Hannah Elizabeth and her Dye family in Nottingham for the 1921 census.
She married Walter V Hanbury sept qtr 1947 in Westminster and then as Valerie M S Hanbury married Patrick B Monahan jan qtr 1955 in Kensington. Death reg Shrewsbury 1992 gives dob as 28 July 1920.