Author Topic: Manning family in Merthyr Tydfil  (Read 576 times)

Offline osprey

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Re: Manning family in Merthyr Tydfil
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 26 March 23 19:02 BST (UK) »
If that is the correct family in 1881, this looks like them in 1861 and there's a widowed Mary Barry with them who could be Margaret's mother.
https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:M717-DR6

marriage reg
Margaret Barry sept qtr 1858 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 475 with John Mahony on the same page
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Manning family in Merthyr Tydfil
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 26 March 23 21:24 BST (UK) »
Likely prison record from Swansea Gaol 1885 for Thomas Manning or Mahoney, offence drunk & disorderly, sentenced to 7 days hard labour or pay 12 shillings, age 21, height 5ft 534, black hair, collier, RC born Merthyr, no previous convictions, discharged 19 May 1885.

Another prison sentence in Swansea for Thomas Manning or Mahoney, convicted at Swansea Assizes 25 Aug 1886 for robbery and sentenced to 15 calendar months, discharged 29 Jan 1888.

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3518886/3518888/14/
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Manning family in Merthyr Tydfil
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 26 March 23 22:14 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all this osprey - got tied up tonight but will try and put it together tomorrow. I have searched the papers on FindMyPast ad nauseam over the last few days but only found the two i posted. Never have any luck with the nlw papers.

I know we can never fully trust the info on censuses or bmd registrations etc but was thrown by the Manning / Mahoney names and assuming they were one family. Incidentally i have Mahoneys and Barrys in one line of my own tree, but not related as far as i know.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Manning family in Merthyr Tydfil
« Reply #12 on: Monday 27 March 23 12:38 BST (UK) »
I think i'm happy with Thomas now, as born MarQ 1863 to John Mahoney and Margaret (nee Barry), though this means he was strictly Mahoney rather than Manning known as Mahoney.

The prison records as Manning or Mahoney appear to confirm him, though the 1913 court case for neglecting his children suggests he's a hard worker who gives his wife all (or nearly all - can't make out the amount) his wages, and she is the one who drinks. He is also now a stoker at the brickworks rather than a miner.

There is a 1881 census entry as a soldier at the infantry camp, St Botolph in Colchester, Essex, for a Thomas Manning, aged 23 born Merthyr - but no Thomas Manning birth registered in Merthyr (though there is one born in Llangynwyd, Bridgend). 

Not so sure about the 1889 Catherine Evans marriage to John Griffiths yet though, although the subsequent marriage of Catherine Griffiths to Thomas Manning in 1896 would match. But Merthyr burials have no record of a John Griffiths burial to match the Merthyr deaths aged 24 in 1891 or 20 in 1893. Nor can i find a married Catherine Griffiths (or them both) in 1891.

Buying the first marriage certificate wouldn't confirm anything i guess, but buying the 1896 Catherine Griffiths to Thomas Manning one might, if it showed Catherine as widowed. I will suggest this to the lady i'm helping.

No luck finding Merthyr births of William (c 1892), Thomas (c 1896), Catherine (c 1898), Evan (c 1902), Susan (c 1906), or David (c 1908) either as Manning or Mahoney or Griffiths, with mmn = Evans (or Griffiths - I have several where mmn is shown as previous married name). There are a couple of Griffiths births with mmn Evans between the 2 possible marriages in 1891 and 1896, but they are a few years out of the census ages.

Rather a struggle now, and very puzzling.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....


Offline nestagj

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Re: Manning family in Merthyr Tydfil
« Reply #13 on: Monday 27 March 23 15:25 BST (UK) »

No luck finding Merthyr births of William (c 1892), Thomas (c 1896), Catherine (c 1898), Evan (c 1902), Susan (c 1906), or David (c 1908) either as Manning or Mahoney or Griffiths, with mmn = Evans (or Griffiths - I have several where mmn is shown as previous married name). There are a couple of Griffiths births with mmn Evans between the 2 possible marriages in 1891 and 1896, but they are a few years out of the census ages.

Possible for Catherine
MAHONEY, CATHERINE       O'DONNELL 
GRO Reference: 1898  D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL  Volume 11A  Page 691

I know the maiden name isn't right but possibly worth looking at I can't find another Catherine Mahoney in the census 1901 born in Merthyr.

N

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Manning family in Merthyr Tydfil
« Reply #14 on: Monday 27 March 23 15:41 BST (UK) »
Thanks nestagj, i ‘think’ i have found possibles for all the children with different mmn, but without knowing definite dates of birth even that is hard to confirm. Given that the younger children were in care it’s not surprising there are differences. The lady i’m helping says her grandmother used to celebrate her birthday on 12 July (as on the 1939 register) only to discover it was really 19 June when she needed a copy for a passport.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Manning family in Merthyr Tydfil
« Reply #15 on: Monday 27 March 23 15:45 BST (UK) »
Re Catherine, her date of birth on the 1939 register is given as 8 Feb 1896 but given workhouse ages etc it looks more likely to be 1898 (maybe 8 Feb 🤔). Died in 1961 (aged 63) so no other date known.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline nestagj

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Re: Manning family in Merthyr Tydfil
« Reply #16 on: Monday 27 March 23 16:12 BST (UK) »
Thanks

I found it really strange loads of Mahoney births in Merthyr around those date all with different MMN.

Fascinating puzzle ....

Nesta

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Manning family in Merthyr Tydfil
« Reply #17 on: Monday 27 March 23 16:16 BST (UK) »
Thanks Nesta, certainly not helped by the workhouse and prison records calling him Thomas Manning, known as Mahoney. Not many Mannings. Wondering if it is one of those cases where the name is written as heard, especially if his parents were Irish as it appears. Presuming Mahoney is pronounced Marny then Manning is not too far away  ???

And i can't find anything on a Catherine Evans born around 1868 in Cefn - but plenty in Merthyr. Her prison entry in 1913 says born Cefn too.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....