Nuggets from the Kirk Session

[Forfarian]

Rothes, 1813
July 11. Preach'd and Colld 10s 11d
July 18. No sermon, the kirk being unroofed
July 25. Preach'd in the Minister's garden Col'd 6s 6d
Augt 1. Preach'd in the Minrs garden Coll 6s 6d
Augt 8. Preach'd and Coll 5s 10d
Augt 15. No sermon
Augt 22. Coll'd in the Minrs garden 3s 6½d
Augt 29. Preach'd in the Minrs garden 4s 8¾d
Sept 5. No sermon Minr at Botriphnie assisting at the Sacrament
Sept 12. People assembled in the church and prayed but no collection
Septr 19. Preach'd in the Kirk Coll'd 9s 6¼d
Even back then repairs took a wee while to complete!

[Rena]

Parishioners were expected to hand over one tenth of their weekly income (= a tithe), and I think the locals were rather well off!!

[Forfarian]

Not so sure about that.

According to the Bank of England's inflation calculator, goods and services costing 10s in 1813 would cost £27.70 today. I can't imagine that the entire weekly income of the whole congregation would amount to the equivalent of £277 today - that's less than one person would earn for a 30-hour week on the minimum wage of £10.42 per hour.

The population of Rothes in 1792 was estimated by the minister to be about 1500 people. If half of those attend the kirk, and two-thirds of those attending put something in the collection, the largest collection in that list amounts to about one farthing per person.

The Statistical Account of Forres* in 1796 says that a farm labourer would get 10d a day plus two meals. Inflation meant that goods that cost 10d in 1796 cost 3s 3d in 1813, and the same would cost £3.77 today.

*The Rothes SA says nothing about wage rates. Neither do those of Birnie or Elgin.

[Rena]

If a parishioner couldn't give the Religious Tithe in cash, then the alternative would be to give home grown vegetables or fruit or whatever else  the parishioner had available such as ale from his crop of barley

[Forfarian]

If a parishioner couldn't give the Religious Tithe in cash, then the alternative would be to give home grown vegetables or fruit or whatever else  the parishioner had available such as ale from his crop of barley

Yes.

What I am unsure about is whether or not the Church of Scotland or any of the other presbyterian churches ever actively advocated or supported the concept of tithing. Apparently the New Testament does not explicitly require this, and the bible as a whole isn't clear about what the tithe should be calculated on, or whether tithes should be paid by all members. See http://tithing-russkelly.com/id152.html for relatively recent discussion of this.

It's not a term I ever recall hearing during any of the times when I was compelled to attend church as a child, and it was certainly never mentioned by any of my relatives, even those who were regular churchgoers. Nor have I ever seen any references to tithes in any of the kirk session minutes I've read.

I am aware of two tithe barns in Scotland, and there may be more of which I am not aware
https://canmore.org.uk/site/60083/foulden-old-tithe-barn and
https://canmore.org.uk/site/56676/whitekirk-tithe-barn-and-pilgrims-houses.
The latter definitely, and the former possibly, pre-date the formation of the Church of Scotland so cannot be quoted as evidence of tithes being expected by the C of S.

Indeed, the apparent absence from Scotland of tithe barns dating from later than the establishment of the C of S could be held to be evidence that the C of S did not expect to receive tithes in kind.

[Rena]

Not so sure about tha

I've had second thoughts about the amount of cash put into the collection trays by families.  As a girl guide I only put a token amount of (silver)  in the collection.

My father's parents took their brood to church THREE times each Sunday and I can't imagine parents with eight children departing with 3 x 10% of the father's weekly wage.. 

[Forfarian]

Surely, even if the church expected tithes, they would only expect any particular family to contribute up to a maximum of one-tenth of the total family income? They could hardly expect to get a tenth three times over.

Three times in one day sounds a bit excessive for young children, and a bit of an imposition on the poor minister if he had to write three different sermons every week.

Though I suppose that three brief services might be preferable to the Glasite services which lasted so many hours that they had to take a break for soup half-way though, hence the denomination being nicknamed the 'Kail Kirk'. (For those mystified by that, kail is the Scots word for cabbage.)

[Rena]

Surely, even if the church expected tithes, they would only expect any particular family to contribute up to a maximum of one-tenth of the total family income? They could hardly expect to get a tenth three times over.

Three times in one day sounds a bit excessive for young children, and a bit of an imposition on the poor minister if he had to write three different sermons every week.

Though I suppose that three brief services might be preferable to the Glasite services which lasted so many hours that they had to take a break for soup half-way though, hence the denomination being nicknamed the 'Kail Kirk'. (For those mystified by that, kail is the Scots word for cabbage.)

I don't think they visited one church three times each Sunday.   They were Scots living in a thriving Yorkshire town and I know that practically every street seemed to have a church of some description. 

[Forfarian]

Still sounds like rather an excess of zeal!