The mysterious Murphy's of Cork: link to Australia in the goldrush era

[wivenhoe]

Thank you for the good information from the documents that you have.

It is useful to identify the author of the information on birth and death certificates.   Who is the informant named on the birth certificates and death certificates that you have?

"Previous issue" is used on birth certificates, and records earlier births to the same couple. On the birth certificate 1867, you have listed this as "children".

You do not need a certificate for every BDM event in the lives of the people you are researching.

It is useful to target particular records, keeping in mind the event -

births........earliest evidence you have of the person.

marriage...people are giving information about themselves ie. self-reporting.

death....end of life record....information about the persons origins, and what happened since they were born. This is a story as recorded by the informant, and as known to that person.

during the 19th century in Australia this will vary from state to state, and change over time as governments wanted to record more information about people. But some did not record much at all  eg  South Australia and Tasmania.

Mary WALSH died in 1888 as a widow. The person who knew her longest would be her husband James, and he is not around to be the informant.

James WALSH died in 1882. The person who knew him longest would be his wife Mary. Mary might be named as informant, but if she is not, then you might assume that she is the source of information on his death record. You do not need to get his death certificate, but I am suggesting how you might consider which certificates to get.

The birth certificate, 1867, is useful to compare with the death certificate, 1888 to account for children.

Death certificate for Mary WALSH, 1888...it is interesting to see that it has family name ...O'CONNOR...for her mother, not no given name. You might think that knowledge of Mary's origins is passed on in conversation by Mary during her lifetime, and her mother's given name would be known?

Does that suggest that Mary has received knowledge of her mother, but no personal memory?.

Was Mary brought up by father Jeremiah and a stepmother?  Just ideas to ponder.

Use PROV  (Public Records of Australia) to find a probate records for Mary WALSH, died Timor West 1888.

https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates

Mary owned land when she died.

I am not seeing a probate file for James WALSH who died 1882?  If James died with no estate, you might wonder how and when Mary acquired property.

Ambrose is a less common name and might repeat the name of a brother to his parents James WALSH ....Mary MURPHY.

Can you give the names of informants  for the birth record, 1867, and the death record 1888.

[Dundee]

Sorry, Debra, I did not know what you meant when you asked "What is stated as the previous issue on this certificate?"

The column heading should say 'issue living and deceased'.  It is always interesting when the registrar allows for deceased children to have an age.  That is not how they should be recorded but ends up being more helpful.

Debra 

[annemareeinerko]

Hi, Wivenhoe

Thanks for your reply these are good points to ponder. Yes, I wonder how the grandchildren knew their grandfather's first name and not their grandmother's first name (Unknown O'Connor).

James Walsh's death certificate lists Patrick Walsh (son) as the informant. Mary's certificate is difficult to read but indicates the informant was a person present at her magisterial inquiry into her death by drowning. It looks like the name Carkhill...? On Francis's birth certificate, Mary is listed as the informant.

It seems she inherited land from her son Robert, who died at 26. His probate is listed here:

https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/7F1ABB0A-F1DF-11E9-AE98-E36740BD46A4?image=6

Her inquest stated that she was living with his children when she died.

[annemareeinerko]

Thanks, Debra 

[wivenhoe]

"Robert Walsh's certificate from BDM Victoria in 1848 "

Can you give all the information on this document. It will be a baptism record.

Do you see names of godparents? 

[wivenhoe]

Why did Robert WALSH, died 1873, leave his estate to his mother Mary?.

What do you know of James WALSH who died 1882.  Is he not supporting his wife and children, as might be indicated by notices in newspapers and court appearances?

[wivenhoe]

If there is no marriage to see for Mary MURPHY and James WALSH in NSW, it is possible that Mary MURPHY is in an established, but not recorded, domestic arrangement with James WALSH, and, by the time of birth of Jeremiah, is living in Victoria.

Has Mary MURPHY taken on a married James WALSH and one or two children born....where?...when?...to a, so far, un named woman?.

Subsequent BDM records would record information such as to describe a family where children are born to a married James WALSH and Mary MURPHY eg   place and years of marriage.

Until you know otherwise, and guided only by the information on BDM records, you might think that Alice WALSH is born to James WALSH because Alice is the name of his James's mother. But Mary MURPHY might not be mother to Alice?

Jeremiah is a less common name, so the birth of a Jeremiah to this couple might indicate when Mary MURPHY, father Jeremiah, is living with James WALSH.

[sparrett]

 

"I do not have any evidence of James or Alice being born in NSW or Victoria."

 
When the daughter Alice died in Victoria in 1866, both her parents were living and she was unmarried. One would therefore hope the information given about her for the registration would be correct.

Death
WALSH, Alice
Parents- James and Mary
Where born Bath.
Age 24
Reg 1866/7918

Sue

[sparrett]

As a deponent  at the inquest into the drowning death  of his mother, son Patrick said she was about 60 years old.

I wonder how he arrived at that?
Sue