Author Topic: Ann Saunders born c1826 St George's  (Read 424 times)

Offline jonw65

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Re: Ann Saunders born c1826 St George's
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 11 April 23 00:02 BST (UK) »
Fanny Rubenia Carter b 1851 - mmn Saunders

She is with them in Marylebone in 1861, but not son George! Hopefully he is with his maternal grandparents.
Fredrick Carter, 39, a Coach Maker
Ann Carter, 35, born St George's

They have Frederick's brother George Carter, 32, with them. Assistant Warder
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7P9-6XF

In 1871 they are in Hammersmith, with even more children.

Offline jonw65

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Re: Ann Saunders born c1826 St George's
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 11 April 23 08:42 BST (UK) »
So is that 1844 F W Carter - Ann Mason marriage in Paddington of any relevance?
Fits well enough, except for Ann's surname!

This might be interesting?

A marriage at Holy Trinity, Marylebone, 23 Dec 1830
John Saunders, Bachelor
+
Ann Mason, Spinster

Both of Trinity
Image here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-8961-S83N

Perhaps Ann's parents weren't married when she was born? Or her mother was Ann Mason, and John Saunders wasn't her real father.

Offline jonw65

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Re: Ann Saunders born c1826 St George's
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 11 April 23 09:57 BST (UK) »
It may all be coming together :)

On that 1844 marriage, Ann said her father was John Mason, Hair Dresser
And in 1841 in Marylebone we have (as posted earlier)
Great James Street
John Saunders 45 Hair dresser, Not born county
Ann Saunders 35 No
Fanny Saunders 6 Yes

John Saunders is in the 1845 PO London directory as a hairdresser at 20 Great James Street, Lisson Grove.
But not listed in 1849.

However, John and Ann are still there in the 1851 census (Launders on ancestry)
Piece 1490 folio 160 page 38
20 Great James Street, Marylebone
John Saunders Head M 50 Labourer, born Brecknockshire
Ann Saunders Wife M 47 Oldham Hampshire (should that be Odiham?)

The Carters, Fredrick and Ann, are also in Great James Street in 1851, at number 19, just two census pages / images before John and Ann Saunders! That's on folio 159 page 36.

Then in 1861, young George is with his grandparents, though all have gone down as born Middlesex London.

Still don't have a baptism for Ann, not even as Mason.
Nor for the 6 year old Fanny Saunders in 1841, though we don't know for sure that she was John and Ann's daughter.

Offline nannyj

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Re: Ann Saunders born c1826 St George's
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 11 April 23 14:32 BST (UK) »
Hi
Thank you so much for all of your hard work. Sorry it's taken a while, to reply.i went back through everything I had and then through yours ... There was a lot there 😂

Ann Saunders is definitely my woman, as the direct ancestor on the tree I'm researching is Sophie Kate Carter b1857 Marylebone to Frederick Carter and Ann. The link with the Mason name does look promising. Frederick is usually just Frederick and was just Frederick on his baptism in 1825 to William and Sophia. Certainly the Sophia plays a part in his children's names.

Across 1851, 61 & 71 censuses, the children ar consistent (albeit a few missing) and Frederick and Anne's places and dates of birth. Frederick is a carpenter on 1851 and 71, and a coach maker on 1861.

The children have MMN Sanders and Saunders ... A mixture on each of the censuses. So I believe that its just been spelled differently.

David 1844 SANDERS
Frederick William 1845 SAUNDERS
George John 1849. SAUNDERS
Fanny Rubenia1851 SAUNDERS
Charles James 1853 SAUNDERS
David Viney 1856 (didn't look for a death of the first one yet) SAUNDERS
Sophia Kate (always known as Kate) 1857 SAUNDERS
Edward Frederick 1860 SAUNDERS
Amy Josephine 1861 SAUNDERS
Mary Ann Gilder1862 SAUNDERS

These are on the 1871 census as their children, but I can't find them on GRO.

Jane 1865
Edward 1867
Robert 1869

Dobs taken from GRO

There's also Anne Sophia 1847 - 49 SAUNDERS so doesn't appear on census and Anne Maria 1854 SAUNDERS
Jamiesons, Martins and McGonigals of Coleraine, Londonderry
and
Cullens, Grahams and Challenors of Dublin county and city.


Offline jonw65

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Re: Ann Saunders born c1826 St George's
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 11 April 23 19:27 BST (UK) »
Hi
I think the Saunders couple in Great James Street in 1841 and 1851 are Ann's family. Though I am not sure if John Saunders was her father or not.

The Mason link has just got stronger!
1851 census (Launders on ancestry)
Piece 1490 folio 160 page 38
20 Great James Street, Marylebone
John Saunders Head M 50 Labourer, born Brecknockshire
Ann Saunders Wife M 47 Oldham Hampshire (should that be Odiham?)

There is a baptism of an Anne Mason in Odiham, 11 March 1804
Parents John and Frances.

I can see nothing else for them there, but afterwards there are baptisms in St George Hanover Square to John and Fanny Mason. The later ones have John as a carpenter.

A couple of the baptisms at St George Hanover Square were of older children. One of those is George Bryan Mason, 24 April 1810. A date of birth is given for him, 21 March 1792. So no longer a child, really!
George Bryan Mason can be found easily. He married more than once, and in 1851 he is in Duke Street in St George.
George B Mason, 59, Stationer, born Hants Odiham

So that all seems to link Ann Mason to the Ann Saunders, wife of John, in Marylebone, who married in 1830.
It also links the Masons to St George's, where Ann Carter nee Saunders says she was born circa 1825/6.

The one thing that stubbornly refuses to be found is a baptism of Ann, presumably as Mason.
Also finding any more on Fanny Saunders would be good.
 

Offline nannyj

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Re: Ann Saunders born c1826 St George's
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 11 April 23 20:01 BST (UK) »
Is George Bryan a brother of Anne mason who married John? By the censuses, I thought that John was probably born c1797 and Anne would be c1800 - 1810 with Ann Saunders/mason being 1826 in st George's?
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Offline jonw65

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Re: Ann Saunders born c1826 St George's
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 11 April 23 20:09 BST (UK) »
Hi
He appears to be.
Ann's age in the first two census fits the Odiham baptism well. 35 in 1841 (rounded down), and 47 in 1851.
I am not sure what happened to their ages and birth places in 1861. I am thinking / hoping it is the same couple, because of George Carter being with them, and his age was a year or so out as well!

I also wonder about Fanny, 6, in 1841 (was she a daughter named after Ann's mum?), and what happened to John Saunders' hairdressing business?
Jon

Offline jonw65

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Re: Ann Saunders born c1826 St George's
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 11 April 23 20:16 BST (UK) »
These are on the 1871 census as their children, but I can't find them on GRO.

Jane 1865
Edward 1867
Robert 1869

Hi again
There is a triple baptism for them at St. John Hammersmith, 11 May 1870
Sarah Jane, born 7 Jan 1865
Albert Edward, born 21 Nov 1866
Robert Saunders, born 31 July 1869

Parents Frederick William + Annie Carter
Abode 8 Rose Gardens
Father a Carpenter

There are birth registrations in Kensington
CARTER, SARAH  JANE     
Mother's Maiden Surname: SANDERS 
GRO Reference: 1865  M Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 154
 
CARTER, ALBERT  EDWARD     
Mother's Maiden Surname: SAUNDERS 
GRO Reference: 1866  D Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 184

CARTER, ROBERT  SAUNDERS     
Mother's Maiden Surname: SAUNDERS 
GRO Reference: 1869  S Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 01A  Page 190

Offline nannyj

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Re: Ann Saunders born c1826 St George's
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 11 April 23 20:22 BST (UK) »
Thanks.been going round in circles with those three 🤣
Jamiesons, Martins and McGonigals of Coleraine, Londonderry
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