Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?

[Cell]

Hi,
Rather than writing another email to the TNA , as every  email I've  recieved from them  it takes them two to three weeks to respond  -  I am wondering  if anyone here has gone through applying  and paying for their records , and can answer my question.

I have received  an email yesterday with a link to pay for the service records I wish to obtain :

"Thank you for your recent request for information from The National Archives.

Check your enquiry details below and follow the link to Worldpay to proceed to payment.[/i][/b][/u]

Enquiry reference number: PAY 02xxx-Cxxxxx


Fee request:

Fee amount: 24.35 GBP (no VAT added "

Xxx ( link here to pay which I've  crossed out)  "

The email  I recieved prior to that  ( and  which I responded  to, saying I wish to proceed with the request  ) quoted a ref number which was assigned to my case,  which is totally different to the above ref number ( and one digit more too)
 Part of the Email below ( the rest of the email is blurb about Freedom of Information and fees and so on, the name of my grandfather and his service number , and if I wish to proceed please let them know so they can give me a final cost and a pay link)  :


"Your reference number is CAS-1XXXXX-YXXXXX . Please quote this reference number in future correspondence with regards to your case to enable us to identify your request more easily. "

My question  is , were your Enquiry Ref numbers to pay for the records  completely  different from your Case Ref numbers ( minus the PAY , and CAS letters  of course) ?
I don't  want to pay for it , if they've  mixed  me up with someone else. ( they have my own name right - it's  just the completely different  Enquiry and Case ref numbers that  I am querying  - as I would have expected them to be the same ref numbers, and they're not). The link  which I am taken to , to pay for it ,and their email does  not give any other info except my own name and the  completely different ref numbers ( and  no name of the soldier unlike their previous  email - so it's not enough to check  if it's correct before I hit the pay button - The only thing I know  is correct  is my own name  )

Kind regards
Ps I am in Australia , so it's  bit difficult to phone  them within their business hours , and it seems their phones aren't  manned  according to their site - you apparently have to  leave you phone  number with them and they'll call you ( which I guess could be weeks if it's anything like their  time response with emails) .
 They have a live chat it seems Tuesday to Saturday , which I may try using *tonight  (* my time here) if that works
 I just wondered if anyone here has gone through the whole process ,and could confirm that their  own ref numbers were completely different to eachother  too , and  if it is just  the way  the TNA do it . It saves me trying to get in contact with them to ask the question.



 

[nanny jan]

If you are looking for WW2 service records:

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records

[Cell]

If you are looking for WW2 service records:

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records

Hi,
I've  been through all that. I am up to the final stages  where they will send me the service records once they recieve  my payment for it

I applied months ago online (  through  the TNA portal, when the portal first went up) . I then recieved a letter from the MOD after their search, with the file  numbers where my grandfathers  records can  be found to give  to the TNA if I wish to apply  ( which I did months ago).
 I have been corresponding with the TNA over  the past few weeks/ months - I am now in the final  stages of paying for the service records which they will send to me once I pay for it.

I am querying the  difference between the ref numbers / letters  that the TNA have given  me,  and am wondering if anyone else has gone through it - and  if the ENQUIRY ref numbers  that they were given by the TNA  to pay for theirs  , like mine, were  completely different  to the CASE ref numbers that they were also given by the TNA too.

The TNA give you a Case Ref in your emails ( you apply in writing for the records , by email to the TNA - once the MOD sends you out  a letter in the post,  and if they say that your records have been moved over - the online portal on the TNA site is just for the MOD to search for you).
 
The case ref that the TNA gives you for your  application ( after you contact them and give them the info the MOD has given  you) identifies you and the record you wish to purchase . You are supposed to use this unique  Case  ref  in all correspondence with them. In  the very last email, the TNA have given me an Enquiry  Ref to pay for the record via worldpay, and not the Case  ref's  combination - which is totally different numbers/letters  to the case ref numbers/letters  for some  odd reason ( I  would  logically think they  would be the same ).  ie there is no way to check if it is correct  details before I pay - yet they say  "Check your enquiry details below and follow the link to Worldpay to proceed to payment"
If that makes any sense

I don't want to pay for something if they've  mixed my application with  someone elses.  The ref numbers/ letters are  completely  different to each other. Case and Enquiry  ( two sets of  different  combinations of refs). There is nothing else  I can check  on  the payment link  if it is the right  ,only  my own name - That is all they have given me to check, my name and a completely  different set of refs to the one we have been using.

If anyone has gone down this route and have gone through the whole process up to the payment  link and receiving  the records, hopefully  they should know what I am taking about, and will be able to confirm if their two sets of ref's( enquiry
and case refs)  were completely different  to each other,  or the same combination(? ?)
I just find it totally odd why my two  sets of references are completely different to each other because there is  no way of checking  if it's correct before I hit the pay button for them.

Kind regards

[nanny jan]

Sorry but I am unable to offer any advice; the last time I applied for a service records was some years ago with no involvement with TNA.

Good luck!

[ALAMO2008]

I would have thought that the Separate Payment Section that has the FOUND papers
would be a Payment Section with their Own Reference for Payment (Cross referenced)
 then Release the Papers under the Application Reference found.
Just a Theory

[ewanarm]

Service records have been free to request since the 1st April 2023. I have just requested my grandfather's and it was a very quick and easy process online but who knows how long it will take to receive them???
I would suggest you request them again but as you have already paid for them don't know whether you would be entitled to a refund?

[ALAMO2008]

Service records have been free to request since the 1st April 2023. I have just requested my grandfather's and it was a very quick and easy process online but who knows how long it will take to receive them???
I would suggest you request them again but as you have already paid for them don't know whether you would be entitled to a refund?

The TNA are not Free
It was the MOD Gov Site you are referring to
But
They have Never Said the Service Records are Free from 1st April
What they said is that the application was Free
 and no payment needed to be sent with the application .
That was because the £30  payment by Cheque previously couldn't be cashed when they got to the case in the two year Backlog because a Cheque is only valid for 6 months.
Hence this new System
Apply Free then Pay them if they find them before the send them to you after payment
Did you Honestly think they would Research for the Records,
 Photocopy All the pages of the Records and Post them
to you anywhere in the World
 for Free ?
Hence this Poster has been asked for Payment before they will be Sent to them.
They are currently being Transferred to the National Archives
Do you think they won't charge either ?

[Cell]

Thanks everyone.
ALAMO2008, I'll  just  pay for it and hope for the best. I am probably  worrying about nothing .

Ewanarm,  obtaining the actual records are not free even if you  have applied after  that April date. My online application was also free  too when I applied before April.
I have not paid anything yet.
The charges are for a member of  the TNA staff to physically go through  the boxes and make copies of them to send to you, as they are in the process of digitalising and indexing  them  and sorting through them.

The free bit is the application .  The MOD  will inform you by *snail mail ( *even though  you apply through the online portal) if they  hold the record or if it has been moved over  to the TNA ( like mine were)
Which is  and was totally free to do this online before that  April date and past that April date.
The MOD  will give  you an index number in their letter to give to the TNA ( where the  invidual  army record is filed under ) and maybe an *army number (* this depends, they gave me an Army number for my grandfather's, but didn't  for my hubby's grandfather , they gave  me just an index number for his )

 From April this " free to apply"  applied to postal applications too, which were not free on application before that date of course ( as you had to send off a cheque  to the MOD with your initial application) - Where it was free  via  the online portal  anyway before that April date ( when I applied) - I think this is where the confusion is coming in with some  thinking  that  records are  free if you apply after April . They were referring to postal  applications  being free ( not records) after  that date.

  Good news though , it's  a little cheaper than the 30 pounds charge that it used to cost from the MOD ( mine is  24.35 pounds and should be a large record as he was in the army for decades up until the very early 1960s) - unless I will receive further charges when they retrieve the record as they do say it is an estimate cost and further charges may apply if  :

" This  fee covers the time taken for one of our team to research into the record and for copies of the records to be sent you. Depending on the size of the records, a further charge may apply for copies to be sent to you via email. Large volumes or complex copying will involve a further fee." Quote from  my email from the TNA .

Also it is far quicker than it used to be too ( with people waiting  well over a year for the records from the MOD)  even though it has taken it couple months to get this far with mine and it will be another month after payment. It's  so very quick compared to what  it used to be like before( that's unless I've  got my  application in before a rush of applications  because of this  after 1st April)


The photo  attached  is the letter I received from  the MOD after applying online before April  (  which was 100% free ) . If you  receive one  informing you they have been moved over to the TNA , you then need to apply to them by writing/ email. The TNA will then  inform you if they will release them to you, costs to make copies  and so on and if you wish to proceed.
Then when you inform the TNA that  you wish to proceed, they  will eventually send you a link to pay - from there on , after payment, it should take up to this time  below:
"Depending on how swiftly payment is made, you should receive copies of the requested record within 20 working days, as laid out in the Freedom of Information Act 2000. " Quote is from  my email from the TNA.

" but who knows how long it will take to receive them??" Quote from Ewanarm

Ewanarm,  if mine are anything to by, this ( time line below)  will give you some sort of idea on  how long it  may take  the MOD , and then the *TNA ( *if  your ones have also been moved over to the TNA, and  if you proceed with the application  of course ) to get  back to you:

I applied on the 8th Feb via the online portal on the TNA site for free  ,  received  a reply from the MOD 15th march in the post  ( I am in Aus, the mail from the UK takes a few weeks to get to me out here  - the actual letter  was typed  out within a very timely manner by the MOD, on the 17th feb )

 I sent a  formal  worded email  to the TNA immediately on the same  day of receiving  the  MOD letter, on the 15th March,  to apply for the records  from them.

Received a reply email  from TNA 28th March ,laying out costs and so on,  and they believe they hold the record, freedom  of information and so on .
Sent an email back to them dated 29th March, saying  yes, I'd  like to proceed  with the application.

Received an email  from TNA on the 14th April with a payment link for the records to be copied and sent to me.

So about 2 months in all - plus it will be up to 20  working days  to receive the records after I pay for a copy , which I am about to do now , when I  stop typing , it will be close to three months from application to receiving records.

Kind regards 

[ewanarm]

Thank you Cell for your concise and informative reply. That helps clarify matters and clears up what is free and where there is a charge. The publicity regarding the charges has been quite confusing and initially did read as if the service had become free which it clearly has not.