Author Topic: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?  (Read 1312 times)

Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 29 June 23 19:30 BST (UK) »
Surely there will be a Fee before they send you what they found and how much.
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Offline Rann69

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Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 29 June 23 19:33 BST (UK) »
Thank you again. All I am saying is the record holders should really state clearly upfront how much it is to obtain a record online or by other means.

Offline Cell

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Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
« Reply #20 on: Friday 30 June 23 01:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Cell,

It came from the MOD and is only 4 pages! The papers show his service record and his notification of release in 1945. Service record starts with his service in school Officer Training Corps through Territorial service with RAMC and war service and then shows him being placed on the reserve. Only redactions are his religion and details of his spouse which I obviously know already. Helped confirm a few stories that I had been told but only actually served overseas for 4 months in 1945 which is different to what I had been told.
Hi,
That's interesting that the MOD redacted his religion as the TNA  haven't done the same with my grandfather's record. His religion  is left uncovered right throughout his records . They  also haven't redacted my grandmother either ( his spouse)
Mine is a massive document 165 pages ,  I think it would have taken the staff a while for them to read through it  all and decide  whether to blank any of it out ( it took  me a good part of the day yesterday and  that's only light reading  it)

 The only things they have redacted on mine are his children's names (  they are all are dead except  my mother) but yet they left a statement in the records  ( his  written statement when he was in a military hospital in 1958 ) talking about his three daughters, and  saying two of which are about to get married. It wouldn't really take much for  a non family member to do a  bit of  digging and find those three daughters names . ( one is my mother and the other two who are about to marry are my aunts ) . There seems no rhyme and reason with some of these redacted ones.

Yes they certainly help with confirming their stories, I now know exactly what  happened when my grandfather was injured in a land mine  in 1938 in Palestine now, which I knew he was blown up there ( which wasn't  how he suffered  being injured - he actually escaped the  explosions  of the land mines" blowing him up" -  only to have his truck driver run over one of his legs, in the heat of the explosions. His truck hit  a landmine and my grandfather jumped from the truck , who was sitting  in the front  next to the driver, inbetween the first landmine and the second landmine explosion and landed just a couple feet away from a third - which didnt go off ). There is a whole statement from him in his records detailing it . Reading it, He was lucky to be alive( one of the other men in his vechicle weren't so lucky who is also named.  )

The only one I was surprised at , which didn't confirm what I've  been told - in fact the complete opposite what I was always told that he loved Singapore   . I was always told he wanted to live there, and was offered a job to run the racetrack ,move his family out there to join  him and retire there, and my gran  didn't want to move there, wow how wrong is that! . It is totally incorrect going by his own statements on the records. (He was in and out of hospital in Singapore with various ailments )  .He was actually very miffed off ( miffed is  not his exact word - disgruntled  ) that he wasn't shipped to Hong Kong as he hated the Singapore  climate,and had enough of travelling and  he wanted to go home and become a " gardener"  which I had to laugh at this statement of wanting to garden ( he always did love his gardening  lol. I used to spend many a day with him down the allotments when I was kid, where he tried to escape from my gran's nagging lol) 

I also found out he was also a qualified football ref which-  was written  down in the records,,which I knew nothing about, except that he always did love his football when I knew him. Apparently he injured his knee ( twice)  back in the late 1920s at football which stopped him playing, so refereed the  army matches I suppose. Just  odd why they  used " qualified "  ,  don't  know  if that is army qualified, or an outside body  qualification .

Too much to take in . Mine retired at his own request in 1966 , poor granddad he must have been  very tired  at the time he retired in 1966.. He had  been constantly in the forces from from he was just  19 beng posted to Indian and sudan , Palestine  then the landings in france ,  and then Germany ,"peacekeeping" in various  countries such as Korea  and Singapore after that , rose through the ranks to  staff/ quartermaster  sergeant  which  most I did know about of course.
 He stepped  back  from postings ( after his  last stint in hospital in 1958 and being pretty much too old for keep carrying on like that  )   and  took the post of head gardener in the military prison back home in the UK (he got his wish lol)  . Then the last couple of years  , he went semi retired , into  the TA , and worked in the stores.


I'll  have to order my husband's grandfather's records,  I applied for his about a week after mine through the Tna's portal, but didn't  take it further ( recieved a letter from the MOD saying they have moved ,but I  didn't take it further to apply from the TNA for his.)  His granddad served in the war years for a couple of years ,as a medic/ stretcher bearer I believe,  My husband never knew his grandfather, he died before he was born so it should be interesting.)

Odd why they have redacted your  religion and didn't with mine.  It almost seems as if it depends on   how they interpret the Freedom and information act.
Kind regards





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Offline Cell

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Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
« Reply #21 on: Friday 30 June 23 02:48 BST (UK) »
Thanks so after submitting the Application online and then go on to receive a record there is a fee - do you know what that is? Thanks again

ps - my ancestor's record relates to National Service post 1945
Hi,
I can only tell  you what I was charged for my grandfather's  records by the TNA, which his are  pre,  during and post war.
My charge for his records was exactly 24.35 pounds, which I think is very good value considering the size of the record .
His covers  40 years of service,   from the year  1926 when he first  joined  up as a young lad ( 19 years old) ,  right through all the years up to august 1966, when he finally  retired .

The fees were  to cover  time for staff to retrieve , search into the records and scan/  photocopy them all.
I really  don't  mind paying for it considering the size of the record. It can't  be cheap taking the time to scan and upload  all the pages  .
There wasn't  one  set cost for records - they email you the costs based on what they think it may finally cost .

 I intially applied through the online TNA portal. The mod  then sent me a letter in the post in response to my online application through  the portal. They told me they've  been moved, and to apply to the tna in writing /email  providing  them with a file  number ( which the mod gave to.me in the letter)  where my grandfather's  record is filed under . The tna then sent me an estimate  after I appled to them in writing with the given  info the mod gave me. The tna  then sent a payment link - eventually , after  I requested the records , and if it exceeds their estimate of 24.35 ( ie complex copying ) they will inform me.

Their  estimate cost  that they initially gave me , was the final cost in my own case, and I didn't  need to pay any more.

Seems  to  me that the big  difference regarding fees and being free  , between mine  and Ewanarms ,  is Ewanarms have come from the MOD and hasn't  been moved  over to the TNA yet , the MOD  hasn't charged Ewanarm anything for the records - so perhaps the ones that  are still held by MOD are free (?)   - Where mine is ( unlucky  for me!) one  of the ones that has  been moved over from the MOD to the TNA. The TNA charges for retrieving them from the files/boxes , copying and uploading records - 24.35 in my own case.


 The other  thing  I find is Interesting,  the TNA says they hold records up to the date of 1964 when you start an order on the portal
" - Records of service for persons serving to 1964 are being sent to The National Archives." Quote from the online portal .
My grandfather's  service ended up to  two years after that date  (in Aug 1966 ) and they definitely hold  his of course. My grandfather died  1991, just  a little over 30 years ago , so  I don't  know if it goes off  how long they've  been dead for ( or their birth year age)  in regards to who's  records they choose to move over  first to the TNA, as it is not going off when they served up to with my own grandfather's records.
Kind regards
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Offline ewanarm

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Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 05 July 23 13:26 BST (UK) »
I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't charged for the records. I was expecting a fee of £30 as this was the fee before April 2023 and it certainly used to be mentioned on the website when making your request.
The GOV.UK website does say that WW1 records are held at the National Archives and you have to complete a FOI paid request costing £25 but it makes no mention of any charge for WW2 service records.
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Offline Cell

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Re: Paying for Army records TNA ref numbers?
« Reply #23 on: Wednesday 05 July 23 13:52 BST (UK) »
I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't charged for the records. I was expecting a fee of £30 as this was the fee before April 2023 and it certainly used to be mentioned on the website when making your request.
The GOV.UK website does say that WW1 records are held at the National Archives and you have to complete a FOI paid request costing £25 but it makes no mention of any charge for WW2 service records.
Hi,
 Currently looking through my emails  from them, It  seems like a standard basic  price  that I was charged, so  I probably would have been charged that  exact same price by them even if the service  record was just one page long . I didn't  have to pay anything  extra due to any large volumes or complex copying(*  as outlined in the below text )  from them.  I don't know what  they consider as large volumes though , as my grandfather's seems  pretty large to me.
  I wouldnt be very thrilled about  paying that same amount of 24 pounds for just a few pages though -one of the reasons why  I am sort of putting my husband's grandfather's records off ( they have also  been moved  to the TNA too according to the MOD letter we received ) ,as I know his  record will be very short and I really don't  fancy paying 24 pounds for them.  I really should apply for them, to at least  see what they will charge .

* " We estimate the cost for this paid search will be £24.35.
This fee covers the time taken for one of our team to research into the record and for copies of the records to be sent you. Depending on the size of the records, a further charge may apply for copies to be sent to you via email. Large volumes or complex copying will involve a further fee. The prices we charge are set out by the Fees Regulations under the Public Records Act (1958) and are based on recovering the costs of providing the services" Quote from my email .

And the link they provided me (from the same email)  outlining these  fees set out by the Public Records Act:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/1420/schedule/made

They knew where to find them of course , from the file number  the MOD sent to me in their letter,  but the TNA  would have still had to retrieve them , copy them and read right through all the record deciding what to blank out - which must  have taken them a quite a while  to read though all those pages  (they  only blanked out my grandfather's children names in the record)

I've applied for another service record
the other day from the MOD ( from the TNA Portal  again) , hopefully these ones are still with the MOD and haven't  been moved over to the TNA ,if all  the records that are still with the MOD are free.

 It is very surprising the records are free from the MOD ( or at least yours were) . You'd really  think the MOD would still be charging something to cover  their costs and time involved . I was surprised that  they posted a letter by slow mail to me out here in Aus  costing me nothing at all   -  so your records  being free must have certainly come as a very pleasant surprise to you.
Kind regards :)



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