The Binns or Bynns families of Keighley, Yorkshire, in the 1600s

[jonwicken]

Hi I am descended from the Quakers John Binns and Abigail King who married in 1703. He was not born a Quaker and joined the Religious Society of Friends in 1683.

It is known that John Binns (also Bins and Bynns) was born on 29th September 1663 and was from Clough Heigh, so his baptism in the Keighley register is assumed to be the John son of John Bynns 'of Hey' that took place at Keighley on 4th October 1663.

There is however another Keighley baptism for John son of John Bynns baptised on 20th December 1663 'of Okeworth' and so it can be seen there two adult John Binnses who were both married and having children at the same time.

There are however no marriages for any John Binns in Keighley at this time. There is a marriage for a John Bynns and Sarah Firth at St Thomas's, Heptonstall, on 19 May 1662, but if this is one of their marriages, we cannot know which one it might be. John Bynns of Hey or John Bynns of Oakworth?

I am looking again at the registers of Keighley and these Binns family branches and would appreciate any input on all this from the information in this post. New eyes are often of great benefit!

So as I have said, we clearly have two clear sets of children for John Bynns of Hey and John Bynns of Oakworth, written as Okeworth. Oakworth is a small village near Keighley, but within the Keighley parish. The earlier baptisms have a residence so we can easily split them.

Children of John Bynns of Hey [Clougheigh]:

04 Oct 1663 John son of John Bynns of Hey baptised
19 May 1666 a child of John Bynns of Hey buried

Children of John Bynns of Okeworth [Oakworth]:

20 Dec 1663 John son of John Bynns of Okeworth baptised
17 Sep 1665 Ann daughter of John Bynes of Okeworth baptised

However the later baptisms do not state a residence, so which John was their father is not known:

05 Jul 1674 Three abortive children of John Bynns buried
20 Nov 1678 James son of John Binns baptised
10 Aug 1684 Sarah daughter of John Binns baptised

The three abortive children have long been assigned to the John Bynns of Hey as his burial has been assumed by researchers to be the John Bynns buried at Keighley on 21 July 1678. However, this burial could just as easily be John Bynns of Oakworth. It feels that the later baptisms of 1678 and 1684 have been overlooked.

In the registers there is also a Jonas Bynns, who despite a marriage not being found, was married to a Jane. They had the following children:

18 Mar 1678/9 stillborn daughter of Jona Bynns buried
03 Sep 1680 Jonas son of Johae [sic] Bynns baptised

On the same day Jonas was baptised, Jane the wife of Jonae [sic] Binns was buried, so she must have died as a result of child birth.
 
Then we also have the children of Abraham Binns of Okeworth. There are two marriages of an Abraham Bynns in Keighley registers, one in December 1656 to Elizabeth Wright and another in September 1661 to a Grace Hanson. Elizabeth wife of Abraham Binns was buried on 24 Nov 1679, so these two Abrahams must be two different men.

The children baptised to Abraham Bynns in the Keighley register are:

16 March 1661/2 Susan daughter of Abraham Bynnes baptised
10 May 1662 Susan daughter of Abraham Bynns buried
26 Oct 1663 Agnes daughter of Abraham Bynns baptised
19 Jun 1664 John son of Abraham Byns of Okeworth baptised
07 Feb 1665 Abraham son of Abraham Bynns baptised
02 Jun 1667 Grace daughter of Abraham Bynns of Okeworth baptised
07 Oct 1668 John son of Abraham Bynns baptised
26 Mar 1670/1 Mary daughter of Abraham Bynns baptised
20 Aug 1671 infant child of Abraham Bynns buried
19 Jan 1672/3 infant child of Abraham Bynns buried
14 Nov 1679 Mary daughter of Abraham baptised

I said at the start of my post that John Binns born in 1663 became a Quaker in 1683. However in the Quaker registers for Knaresborough Meeting, we have the burial of Elizabeth Binns daughter of Abraham Binns of Oakworth who died on 09 March 1662/3 and was buried in the recorded in the Friends Burying Ground near Keighley:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/158427:7097?_phsrc=YXq1269&_phstart=successSource&gsln=binns&ml_rpos=11&queryId=ffcb083e208dff3eaa06c823199596e9

Which Abraham Bynns is this? Husband of Elizabeth or Grace? Was he briefly a Quaker? Is this possibly even a different third Abraham? Was he involved in John Binns becoming a Quaker in 1683? It is all quite confusing!

The Keighley registers do have earlier mentions of Oakworth, with John Binns of Okeworth having a child buried in 1617 and a son Thomas baptised in 1619. Even earlier than this is the will of a William Binnes of Okeworth with a date of 17 Dec 1587 and proved on 30 Jan 1587/8. As well as John and Abraham both being recorded as being of Okeworth in the 1660s, so was a Richard Binns whose daughter Martha was buried in 1668. There was evidently a long lasting Binns connection to Oakworth village.

If anyone has got any thoughts on these various Binns families, I would really like to hear from you.

Thank you,
Jon

[jonwicken]

My understanding from just reading my late father's notes is that Clough Heigh is on Oakworth Moor. I have just googled it and indeed this shows that Clough Hey (which still exists) is in Broadhead Lane, Oakworth, Keighley.

I did not realise the location as I have still never been, but it therefore seems very clear that the various Bynns families at this timer all came from Oakworth in the parish of Keighley, rather than Keighley itself. I had not put this together until now. We need to be thinking about Oakworth, rather than Keighley.

Off the top of my head I can't recall which of John and Abigail's sons wrote down all the family history which records John and Abigail's birthdays and where they were born.

I do know however that earlier researches misunderstood the use of months in the former calendar and so wrote 29th day of the seventh month 1663 (for John's birth) and 29th day of the third month 1682 (for Abigail's birth) as 29th July 1663 and 29th March 1682. This is of course incorrect and it is 29th September 1663 and 29th May 1682, but we still see this inaccurately recorded in some places.

The birth date of 29th September 1663 was why my father felt that the baptism of John must be the 4th October 1663 baptism in the Keighley registers, rather than the one in December 1663. Looking at it now though, I am wondering whether a baby would have been taken to be baptised at a church just 5 days after it was born. This seems too soon to me.

I am now even wondering that if the birth date of John as 29th September is correct, then maybe this was a home baptism if the child was ill. Perhaps the child was then presented at the church in December 1663 and baptised again.

Maybe there was only one John and as he lived in The Hey in Oakworth, sometimes The Hey was used and sometimes Oakworth (or Oakworth) was used. The fact I have only just realised that Clough Hey was in Oakworth, has rather turned everything upside down.

I have looked to see that if this is the case, who the John Bynns was that was buried in 1678. My father very helpfully did a transcription of all the Bynns names in the registers of Keighley which has been invaluable. I am sure if he was alive, he would be happy to know it was so useful!
   
Anyway, in the register there is a John Bynns of Oakworth who was having children in the 1610s and 1620s. There are two possible burials for him, one on 3 June 1627 for John Binnes and a second on 14 March 1643/4 for John Bynns. There is then on 24 June 1645, the marriage of a John Bynns and Thomasin Wade, so it seems quite possible that the John Bynns buried in 1678 was this man.

So to summarise, a possible theory is that John Bynns, son of William and Ellen Bynns who was baptised at Keighley in 1637, was indeed the John Bynns who married Sarah Firth at St Thomas's, Heptonstall, on 19 May 1662.

The John Bynns of the Hey and the John Bynns of Oakworth are the same man.

Their children were

1. John Bynns: born 29 September 1663 and baptised twice on 4 October 1663 (perhaps at home) and again on 20 December 1663 (at the church). Married Abigail King 1703 and died in 1731.
2. Ann Bynes|Bynnes: baptised 17 September 1665 and buried 19 May 1666.
3. 4. 5. Three abortive children: buried 5 July 1674.
6. James Binns: baptised 20 November 1678
7. Sarah Binns: baptised 10 August 1684

I think finding and viewing other wills might be helpful, particularly of Oakworth and also of the Firth family to see if the marriage to Sarah Firth is indeed the correct one and if perhaps their children might be named in a will somewhere.

I would really appreciate anyone's thoughts on all this please.

Thank you,
Jon

[Watson]

Jon's posts above say very little, or nothing, about the occupations of these people.  A bit of flesh on the bare bones may help with disambiguation as well as adding to the interest.  Were they perhaps all farming people?  If so, what manors are involved?

[arthurk]

Many (all?) of the people you mention appear on the Wharfegen website - always a good starting point for that area:

http://www.wharfegen.org.uk/index.php

[jonwicken]

Jon's posts above say very little, or nothing, about the occupations of these people.  A bit of flesh on the bare bones may help with disambiguation as well as adding to the interest.  Were they perhaps all farming people?  If so, what manors are involved?

Hello Watson, sadly the parish registers for Keighley don't list occupations at this time hence the sadly bare bones.

However, I do know that John Binns who was born in 1663 and died in 1731 was a farmer and the will of his grandfather William Bynns from 1672/3 also shows he was a farmer too and probably a weaver as well.

My late father found this will many years ago and Ben Beck has transcribed it on his website here: https://benbeck.co.uk/fh/binns.html#K7.%20William%20Bynns

Extracts from the will about his occupation are:

"...I William Bynnes of the Hey wthin the parish of Kighley....appoint this my last will and Testament ......I give and bequeath unto the Said Abraham my Sonne and his assignes my Bay Mare and a peat Cart & Dungcart and a paire of Cart wheeles and all the furniture belonging to the Said Mare And alsoe I give and bequeath to the Said Abraham and his assignes one Cow called Taggell and five Ewe Sheep nowe in Lancashire and I give unto Robert my Sonne one paire of loomes..."

The will is longer and names his seven surviving children and his grandchildren, but I have just included the relevant parts for your reply here.

Kind regards,
Jon

[jonwicken]

Many (all?) of the people you mention appear on the Wharfegen website - always a good starting point for that area:

http://www.wharfegen.org.uk/index.php

Thanks very much Arthur.

Lots of what is out there is based on research I believe has some out of date or incorrect information. My father started researching this line in the 1950s and I have his research and have been reviewing some parts of it.

For example, every researcher seems to have John Bynns who was buried in 1678 as being the one baptised in 1639, son of William and father of John born in 1663. However, as can be seen from my previous post I do not think that is correct as John Bynns has another child, a daughter Sarah, baptised in 1684.

So I am basically going back to the original registers and what is known and looking at evidence that way. Back to basics/the beginning so to speak. We should always research other people's findings ourselves, but I don't think a lot of people do that. I am just trying to make sense of it all.

I do however of course agree that wharfegen is excellent for information if you are just starting out.

[Watson]

I'm not familiar with the area, but it seems there was a "Keighley Manor".  For example,  I found a note on Discovery of call books, 1663-1779 (Skipton Honour), held by the Yorkshire Archaeological and Historical Society (ref. DD121/19-20).

[jonwicken]

I'm not familiar with the area, but it seems there was a "Keighley Manor".  For example,  I found a note on Discovery of call books, 1663-1779 (Skipton Honour), held by the Yorkshire Archaeological and Historical Society (ref. DD121/19-20).

Thanks Watson. I do need to locate and consult old maps to try and work out where all these farm houses and other places were in relation to each other.

[jonwicken]

So to summarise, a possible theory is that John Bynns, son of William and Ellen Bynns who was baptised at Keighley in 1637, was indeed the John Bynns who married Sarah Firth at St Thomas's, Heptonstall, on 19 May 1662.

The John Bynns of the Hey and the John Bynns of Oakworth are the same man.

Their children were

1. John Bynns: born 29 September 1663 and baptised twice on 4 October 1663 (perhaps at home) and again on 20 December 1663 (at the church). Married Abigail King 1703 and died in 1731.
2. Ann Bynes|Bynnes: baptised 17 September 1665 and buried 19 May 1666.
3. 4. 5. Three abortive children: buried 5 July 1674.
6. James Binns: baptised 20 November 1678
7. Sarah Binns: baptised 10 August 1684

Hi have now found a burial of a John Binns in Keighley on 14 Feb 1689/90 which can be seen online at ancestry here:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/11118504:2256?_phsrc=YXq1366&_phstart=successSource&gsln=b*nn*s&ml_rpos=59&queryId=db88710ed5ea7ab0a5abf27f986814d9

I believe this is most likely to be the John Bynns baptised in 1637 (son of William and Ellen), who was of the Hey in Oakworth, had John Bynns junior in 1663 (who I now believe was baptised twice and later married Abigail King).

I have also found the burial of Susanna the wife of Abraham King buried in Keighley on 8 February 1692. This was the day after Richard Bynns was buried:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/11118756:2256?_phsrc=YXq1366&_phstart=successSource&gsln=b*nn*s&ml_rpos=61&queryId=db88710ed5ea7ab0a5abf27f986814d9

Could they be the Abraham and Richard from Oakworth? I don't know where all the Abrahams fit in at present so more digging to do.

An Abraham Binns married Susanna Burrough at Bradford on 02 March 1684, so could this be their marriage? Bradford was about 10 miles away. Perhaps he was the Abraham who married Elizabeth Wright in 1656 and who was widowered in 1679.

There certainly seems a lot more to be worked out with all these Binns families.

All for now,
Jon