Author Topic: 1682 Testament Testamentar - difficulty deciphering two paragraphs  (Read 310 times)

Offline Zacktyr

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1682 Testament Testamentar - difficulty deciphering two paragraphs
« on: Friday 21 April 23 00:31 BST (UK) »
Hello Rootschatters,

Yet another Testament Testamentar and Inventory that is giving me grief.  This one is from 1682 and it is the last two paragraphs that are problematic.  I'll put the first paragraph in this post and the second paragraph in a second post.  I'll also provide my transliteration of the paragraphs.  The yellow highlighted words are the ones that I cannot decipher.  So, any help is gratefully received and much appreciated.

The quhilk day In pr(esen)ts of Jon Fleming of Caulstoane deput compeared p(er)sonallie Raushen? Reid ----- in Glasgow
exec(ut)or spe(ci)allie constitut for the ---------- oblagators efter named and for him gave in the bond vide
wh(ereupo)ne desiring the samen to be made and reg(iste)red in the books of the said commissariot of Glasgow
--- ----- and ------- of ---------- and ------- ------ full may passe he---------  -----------  to the
o? laws? of register? ane -------- ----- of the q(uhi)lk ---- the ------  ------ follows thus?

CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline Zacktyr

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Re: 1682 Testament Testamentar - difficulty deciphering two paragraphs
« Reply #1 on: Friday 21 April 23 00:34 BST (UK) »
Here is the second problematic paragraph.  Again, any help is very much appreciated.  Thank you.


for the said C(a)utioner releise and of all dainger and expirast? -------
(one line all crossed through)
consent ----- thir p(rese)nts be reg(iste)red in the books of counsell
sess---- or Commiss(a)r court books of G(las)gow shal? ----- and ------- -----------
may -------- on ix day and --------- med full may passe and c(on)stituts Ruachen?
Reid --------- in Glasgow My ------- and In witness wh(e)r(e)of ------------
be James Turnour s(e)rvitor to W(illia)m Sterling ------- in
Glasgow wee have sub(sc)r(ibed) this p(rese)nts at Glasgow the twentie
eight day of of (repeated word) September Jajvi (hundred) four score two yeirs
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE

Offline GR2

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Re: 1682 Testament Testamentar - difficulty deciphering two paragraphs
« Reply #2 on: Friday 21 April 23 23:32 BST (UK) »
First bit:

                                                                                                                          The Quhilk day
In p[resen]ce of Jon ffleming of caulstoune deput com[missary] compeired p[er]sonallie Quinten Reid
                                                                              ind[uell]er [= indweller = resident] in Glasgow
ex[ecu]tor speciallie constitut for the [        ] oblagators efter named and for him gave in the band [=
                                                                                                                                   bond] vide
[        ] desiring the samen to be ins[e]rt [= inserted] and r[egist]rat [= registered] in the Books of
                                                                                                the said commissariot of Glasgow
that ares [= heirs] & exe[cuto]rs of [        ] & vyrs [= uthers = others] neid full [= needful =
                                             necessary] may passe [         ] [con]formes [= in conformity] to the
[o - has no meaning] Laws of registra[tio]une therin fixet [= fixed, settled] of the q[uhi]lk band the
                                                                             haill [= whole] tennor [= tenor] follows thus

John Fleming of "Cowstowne", merchant, was made a burgess and guild-brother of Glasgow on 2nd April 1668, as only lawful son to the late John Fleming, merchant.

Offline GR2

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Re: 1682 Testament Testamentar - difficulty deciphering two paragraphs
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 22 April 23 00:29 BST (UK) »
Second bit:

for the said c[a]utioners releife and of all daunger and [express??] [       ]
consent [   ] thir [= these] p[rese]nts be reg[iste]red in the books of counsell &
session or commiss[a]r court books of Glasgow That Ares [= heirs] and exe[cuto]rs niedfull [=
                                                                                                                  needful, necessary]
may [     ] and vyrs [= uthers = others] niedfull may passe & [con]stituts Quinten
Reid ind[uell]er [= indweller = resident] in Glasgow [           ] & I[n] witnes q[uhai]rof [= whereof]
                                                                                                                                   wri[tte]n
be [= by] James Turnour [= Turner] s[e]rvitor to Wm stirling ind[uell]er in
Glasgow We have sub[sc]r[ivit] thir [= these] p[rese]nts att Glasgow the twentie
eight day of of September Jajvjc & ffour scoir [= score] two yeirs
Befor thir witness[e]s James ffindlay [= Findlay] ind[uell]er in Glasgow and

The books of Council and Session are where deeds are registered in Scotland.

William Stirling was a writer [= lawyer] in Glasgow.

ff- is just a way of writing an initial capital F, not two separate letters. Modern surnames such as Fforde show a misunderstanding of the capital.



Offline Zacktyr

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Re: 1682 Testament Testamentar - difficulty deciphering two paragraphs
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 22 April 23 19:05 BST (UK) »
Hi, GR2

Thank you so much for tackling these two difficult paragraphs.  In one way, I'm happy to see that this man's penmanship has even stumped you on a few of the words.  I don't believe that the missing words would change the interpretation of those sections of the Testament so I am content to live without them.  The rest of the Testament, which was long, was a breeze and I had great hopes that I'd be able to get the entire document finished.  But, then, I hit those last two paragraphs.  I guess the scribes were getting tired by that point!   :)

I really appreciate your time and continued assistance.  Thank you so much.
CRN-Hocking
DVN-Bickle.Doble.Harris.Hill.Nrthcte
KEN-Austen.Bodeker.Collard.Dodd.Duncan.Eaton.Gregry.Hammnd.Herman.Hills.Hodgs.Ivysn.
James.Kemp.Milstd.Nut.Owlet.Ruck.Spilet.Terry.Tilby.Thmsn.Walker
SOM-Baker.Clatworthy.Linton.Parker.Smith.Stone.Twose
ABD-Barclay.Cruickshank.McKenzie.Shepherd.Club
LKS-Douglas.Gunn.Turner
MLN-Dicks/Dickson.Duff.Lindsay.Young
SHI-Bain.Cluness.Fordyce.Gray.Petrie
ASSISTANCE PROVIDED HERE IS FROM MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE & NOT TO BE CONSTRUED AS LEGAL ADVICE