Allan McDonald, born 1836-37

[Eric Hatfield]

I would not restrict your search to Victoria.
I know of numerous examples of people /families who had emigrated to and lived in other states (NSW, SA, TAS but also Qld) who relocated to Victoria during the 1850s for the gold.

Good thought. Thanks.

Scotland's People has over half a million records containing Maggie. That's about a tenth of the number of Margarets.

Fair enough.

Thanks both of you for your interest and advice. This forum has been invaluable to me over the years. A lot of my family history progress, including solving several mysteries, have come from people on this forum, and I value every bit of advice I get.

[Eric Hatfield]

There may of course be others whose records have not survived.

Has anyone you know of made an estimate of roughly what percentage of church BDM records have been lost?

[Forfarian]

There are two reasons for records to be missing
- they were never recorded in the first place
- they were recorded but the records were lost
and it seems likely to me that the first is the more likely explanation.

I have seen somewhere an estimate that 30% of pre-1855 records are missing. But of course it varies over time. Before 1553, 100% of baptism records are missing.

In my tree I have 7434 people who are blood relatives or a spouse of a blood relative and born in Scotland before 1855. Of these, 1983 baptism records are missing - that's 26%. Not far off that 30%.

Between 1800 and 1854, 1262 of 5187 are missing, which is 24%
Between 1750 and 1799, 350 of 1487 are missing, which is also 24%
Between 1700 and 1749, 153 of 483 are missing, which is 32%
Before 1700, 205 of 263 are missing, which is 78%.

I may still be able to find some of the missing ones, for example in records that are not on Scotland's People, or if a previously lost document should turn up. But I very much doubt that these would be enough to alter the overall figures significantly.

There may also be local variations. For example the proportion of unrecorded events may be higher in cities, where the numbers of people were too large for the local kirk to keep track of them all, compared to rural parishes where most people would be known to the minister and elders.

Also, I cannot be sure that my own statistics are fully representative of the whole country. I have, for instance, no known direct ancestors from the present Argyll and Bute, Highland, Western Isles, Orkney or Shetland, or from Dumfries and Galloway or the Borders (though one of my lines has a Border surname and an unconfirmed family story that its progenitor was from the Borders) and it may be that the standard of record-keeping in remoter areas was different from that in more populous areas.

Does that help?

[Eric Hatfield]

That's really compehensive and helpful thanks.(As well as interesting.)

I was wanting to have an idea about how likely it is that someone I am looking for is missing from the record. 30% (give or take) is a fair percentage. That helps me in decisions where it is unclear if I have found the correct person. If the percentage of loss was very low (which I wouldn't actually expect) then the chance of my person of interest being missing would be low, but as it is, if I can't find someone, it is quite reasonable to assume that they are missing, and therefore I don't have to choose from the less likely people.

Thanks.

[Neale1961]

As you say, the 1841 Scotland census does not yield any promising families. So was the family on the move before that census?  With that in mind, I have been looking at some early shipping lists. There are a quite a few men from Inverness-shire called Donald McDonald, which is unhelpful.

However, the following took my interest.

Arriving Feb 1842 on “Broom”
A family from Arr--? Inverness-shire. Brought out by Mr Francis Reid
Donald McDonald, age 37, farmer and shepherd – experienced as an overseer on sheep station, RC, Read & write – to perfection!
Wife Margaret (nee McLelland) 32, a dairy woman
Children: Allen 7, John 4, Clemmy 2, Catherine 6 months.
Kate McDugald travelling under the care of this family.


Arriving 1839 on “British King” (the written scrawl on record is EXTREMELY difficult to read – I may not have everything right)
A family from Moidart Inverness-shire
Donald McDonald, age 34, Shepherd, RC, Read & write YES
Wife, Maryann McDonald (maiden name McDonald), RC. Read & write NO
Children Male: John 14, Allan 12, --?, Hugh 3, Alex, 1
Children female: Catherine

[wivenhoe]

You have a death certificate for Allan McDONALD, died 1891, Victoria.

Can you please list all the information on the document....everything please.

At 1891, death of Allan McDONALD leaves wife Annie with a family of small dependent children.

How did Annie support these children?....close FOSTER family living nearby?....what?

Can you please write family names in upper case.

[Eric Hatfield]

However, the following took my interest.

And mine, now! Thanks.

I had looked at dozens of McDonald emigration records, but I don't think I found these two. I think I may have searched too late (mainly 1850s when the Highland and Island Emigration was going).

There are attractive things about both of these, though some difficulties too.

Arriving Feb 1842 on “Broom”
Allan's age looks right. Donald is literate, RC and an overseer (which Allan also was at his marriage). But wife is Margaret, not Mary (not sure that is a problem or not, as has been discussed), and Broom arrived in Sydney, not Victoria (though the family or Allan could have moved there later). I am intrigued about "Being brought out by Mr Francis Reid" because he chartered an entire ship (Manlius)  that arrived in Melbourne the same month, but so far I haven't been able to find out more about him.

Arriving 1839 on “British King”
Wife is Mary, maiden name McDonald (as you have discussed previously), RC, literate, arrived in Melbourne. But Allan would be 10 years older than he claimed at his marriage in 1870 - he would be looking good if he could have gotten away with that! 

I'm inclined to favour the first, but so far I haven't found record of either of their deaths in either NSW or Victoria, so I can't be sure.

But this has certainly given me something work with, thanks.

[Eric Hatfield]

Hi Wivenhoe, thanks for your interest, I really appreicate the help I have been getting here.

Can you tell me what you are learning from the questions you are asking me please? I'd be really interested to know. Are you finding anything that would assist me, or do you have your own interest?

You have a death certificate for Allan McDONALD, died 1891, Victoria.

I don't actually have the certificate, only the information provided on their website by Vic BDM. In Australia, online certificates cost upwards of $20 each, so I ration myself to what I absolutely need. Unlike in Scotland where I can afford to buy whatever I need.

Can you please list all the information on the document....everything please.

I'll give you what I have:

Family Name: MCDONALD
Given name: Allan
Mother's name: <Unknown family name> Mary
Mother's family name at birth: MCDONALD
Father's name: <Unknown family name> Donald
Place of birth: [blank]
Place of death: Ballan
Spouse at death: <Unknown family name>
Age at death: 54
Reg year: 1891
Reg. number: 158/1891

At 1891, death of Allan McDONALD leaves wife Annie with a family of small dependent children.
How did Annie support these children?....close FOSTER family living nearby?....what?

I don't know. She had the additional difficulty that her eldest daughter, Mary, gave birth to my grandmother in January 1891 without being married or naming a father, and gave the child up for adoption. That was presumably before Allan died, but it would have been a trying time arranging for Mary to travel from Ballan to Melbourne for the birth.

But there were many Fosters around. Her parents were dead, but she had a sister and two brothers (at least) though I don't know if they were all still alive. Also I suspect that the father of Mary's child was also a Foster, related to Annie Foster's Uncle, George, who lived in nearby Geelong. I can't prove all that yet, but I think it is true. So I guess help was at hand. When Anne died 15 years later, she was no longer living in Ballan, but in Melbourne, in the same suburb where Mary gave birth, so I'm guessing she had friends or family there, though I have no information on that yet.

Can you please write family names in upper case.

Is this a convention? (I really know little about family history conventions.)

[Neale1961]

Eric, My thinking with those early NSW immigration records is that Donald McDONALD may have been here and working in some other capacity until gold fever in the 1850s, when he (like many others) just left their employment and became miners.

I have not looked yet at early immigration into Sth Aust, but that is another possibility to pursue.
Just as an example, a few months back I was researching an English family, where the father was a successful builder brought into the newly founded Adelaide to help "build" the town in the 1830s. By 1854, he had gone with his family to the diggings in Victoria.

Added. Francis Reid was an immigration agent, like the many others, making money from bringing immigrants to Australia.
There is a bit of reading here, you might find interesting.
https://www.electricscotland.com/history/australia/scotaus3.htm