Author Topic: marriage record in Avondale, Lanarkshire, 1776  (Read 284 times)

Offline djwilk

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marriage record in Avondale, Lanarkshire, 1776
« on: Monday 24 April 23 00:01 BST (UK) »
I have a marriage record from 1776 in Avondale. The marriage is that of Archibald Walker and Margaret Fleming on 28 Nov. This is a peculiar record because it includes "signed Robert Mutter". It is the only record on that page with such a signature. I have checked pages before and after this one and have found other entries that were "signed Robert Mutter". I suspect that Robert Mutter was a civil official and that he was legitimizing irregular marriages. I also think that he may have been a blacksmith or something like that because sometimes people went to them to witness their declaration of marriage. Can someone confirm this or suggest another possibility?

Online goldie61

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Re: marriage record in Avondale, Lanarkshire, 1776
« Reply #1 on: Monday 24 April 23 06:21 BST (UK) »
Scotlandsplaces have a Robert Mutter at Udstonhead, Avondale, in the Land Tax rolls for 1803.
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/land-tax-rolls-1645-1831/land-tax-rolls-lanarkshire-volume-04/3
This is only a couple of miles from Strathaven, and a couple of miles from Stonehouse.

The Cart Tax rolls 1788, give a Robert Mutter again at Stonehouse. He pays tax on one cart.

Have you looked at the Avondale kirk sessions minutes? - I think viewable on ScotlandsPeople.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Online Forfarian

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Re: marriage record in Avondale, Lanarkshire, 1776
« Reply #2 on: Monday 24 April 23 09:32 BST (UK) »
I suspect that Robert Mutter was a civil official and that he was legitimizing irregular marriages.
No, not that.

A marriage required only a declaration by the couple in front of two witnesses. That was a legal marriage, although it was irregular from the point of view of the church. In 1803*, it did not require any further civil procedure.

*From 1855, it was necessary to have a further civil procedure to have an irregular (and perfectly legal) marriage registered.

I can't quite imagine the Kirk Session being happy with allowing a blacksmith or anyone else who regularly witnessed irregular marriages to sign their register of baptisms.

I think that Robert Mutter is more likely to have been the Session Clerk. The obvious place to check that would be the Kirk Session minutes, as goldie61 says.

Unfortunately the Avondale Kirk Session minutes do not appear to have survived - they are not on Scotland's People and there is nothing listed for Avondale Kirk Session in the catalogue of the National Records of Scotland.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Online goldie61

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Re: marriage record in Avondale, Lanarkshire, 1776
« Reply #3 on: Monday 24 April 23 12:03 BST (UK) »

Unfortunately the Avondale Kirk Session minutes do not appear to have survived - they are not on Scotland's People and there is nothing listed for Avondale Kirk Session in the catalogue of the National Records of Scotland.

I'm sure they exist somewhere - I can remember looking through them to try and find my ancestors.

NRS catalogue Ref CH2/930. "Records of Avendale/Strathaven Avendale Old Kirk Session. 1660 - 1970".
They are on Scotlandspeople "Avendale Kirk sessions".
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs


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Re: marriage record in Avondale, Lanarkshire, 1776
« Reply #4 on: Monday 24 April 23 12:31 BST (UK) »
Very good - you're right - I forgot about the alternative spelling and searched for Avondale instead of Av*ndale.

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline sancti

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Re: marriage record in Avondale, Lanarkshire, 1776
« Reply #5 on: Monday 24 April 23 13:40 BST (UK) »
What is the actual wording in the marriage record?

Are all records on the page in the same hand-writing?

Offline djwilk

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Re: marriage record in Avondale, Lanarkshire, 1776
« Reply #6 on: Monday 24 April 23 15:09 BST (UK) »
A little background: Arch'd Walker and Marg't Fleming had had a natural son named John in 1762. So it is curious that the marriage took place 14 years later. I have no idea what happened in those 14 years between John's birth and the marriage. There were no other children until 1778. Something seems to have kept them apart until 1776. Perhaps Arch'd served in the army or he could have been married to another woman. (There is a record of and Arch'd Walker of Stonehouse marrying a Margaret Shearer of Lesmahagow in 1766 and had two children born in 1767 and 1770.)

I have done some enquiries about irregular marriages and it seems that they were legal but the church did not recognize them. Couples could pay a fine and their names would be entered in the register as officially married for the sake of the children produced. I suspect that this is what happened.

It is possible that Robert Mutter was the session clerk. It is hard to say. On Scotlandpeople, there is a gap in the sessions records from 1757 to 1779. The handwriting in the first session report in 1779 looks very similar to the writing of marriage record of Arch'd Walker and Marg't Fleming.

There is no indication in the Avondale marriage register in 1776 that any of the entries are bookings of Banns. All the records provide are names and dates.

Offline djwilk

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Re: marriage record in Avondale, Lanarkshire, 1776
« Reply #7 on: Monday 24 April 23 15:20 BST (UK) »
Update: I have studied the handwriting in other entries in the register and compared them with the wring in the sessions report of 1779 and they seem to match quite closely. It seems that Robert Mutter was the writer of most of the entries which would mean he was the clerk. The question remains of why he personally signed some of the entries. Between 24 March 1776 and 29 Feb 1777, four entries include the words "signed Robert Mutter". This has to indicate some kind of irregularity.

Offline sancti

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Re: marriage record in Avondale, Lanarkshire, 1776
« Reply #8 on: Monday 24 April 23 17:39 BST (UK) »
There are baptism records for children of Robert Mutter in Avondale 1747-1754. If you viewed one of them it may give info on the father