Author Topic: Can anyone help me identify which of the forces my grandad was in?  (Read 678 times)

Offline zoehutson

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Re: Can anyone help me identify which of the forces my grandad was in?
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 29 April 23 17:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Zoe, Hope you don't mind, but I gave your lovely photo a clean and removed the double exposure around the legs.
Carol

Thank you so much Carol, that is really kind of you. It looks lovely!


Hi
A bit earlier than ww2 but...
There is a piece in the Wolverton Express 15th Sep 1933 re a marriage between Thomas George Tebbutt and Clarice Herbert.
"Bridegroom in Military Uniform"
It mentions siblings and parents address 40, Vicarage Road, Old Bradwell. It mentions him as a Grenadier Guardsman and that he was leaving England for Egypt with the 3rd Battalion Grenadier Guards.
Cathy

Hi Cathy,

Thanks for this- what a brilliant find! They are my grandparents in the picture I attached! As it mentions that he is a Grenadier Guard it makes it a lot easier! Is this newspaper piece something I will be able to find online, or do I have to subscribe and buy it?


Thank you for the comments Andy and Scrimnet,

So as he is a Grenadier Guard, my best bet is obtaining a death certificate and getting his records from the MOD?


Offline Albufera32

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Re: Can anyone help me identify which of the forces my grandad was in?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 29 April 23 17:24 BST (UK) »
I am not sure if this is what your Dad meant by the reference to the buttons, but the one of the distinctions of the Guard Regiments is the way the buttons are arranged. The Grenadiers have 9 single buttons, the Coldstreams 10 grouped in pairs, the Scots Guards 3 groups of three, the Irish 4, 4 2 and the Welsh two groups of 5.
Howie (Riccarton Ayrshire)
McNeil/ McNeill (Argyll)
Main (Airdrie Lanarkshire)
Grant (Lanarkshire and Bo'ness)
More (Lanarkshire)
Ure (Polmont)
Colligan (Lanarkshire)
Drinnan (New Zealand)

Offline scrimnet

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Re: Can anyone help me identify which of the forces my grandad was in?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 29 April 23 17:47 BST (UK) »
Although this was true of WW1 records, it sadly no longer is. They were sold off.
And importantly ALL records post 1921 are STILL with the MOD only. They are migrating to the National Archives and ultimately digitisation, but you still have to go through Kentigern House atm.

Forces War Records is sadly a waste of time and money. They have nothing which is not either free and in the public domain, or on ancestry or FindMyPast....Avoid

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-records-of-deceased-service-personnel
Scrimnet, My comment about the Coldstream was based on this section contained in the TNA research Guide:
Quote
Service records of Guards regiments

The Coldstream Guards and Scots Guards regiments retain their own records. To access them write to or call the appropriate regimental headquarters.

For Grenadier, Irish and Welsh Guards service records visit the GOV.UK website.

Some of these records were destroyed by enemy bombing of the Guards chapel during the Second World War.
My understanding is that although the service records are with the MOD, the Guards hold quite a lot of unit level nominal rolls and other documentation which may be of help in identifying if Zoe's grandad was in the Coldstream Guards.

On your second point, I was not suggesting that she looks at FWR. The links are to WW2Talk with which I'm sure you are familiar and will acknowledge is an excellent forum.

I have a chum who is a big noise in the Guards museum. He told me at the end of last year that its all gone. All enquiries are now passed on, as I have mentioned it on a FB page.
One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.

Offline scrimnet

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Re: Can anyone help me identify which of the forces my grandad was in?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 29 April 23 17:49 BST (UK) »
Although this was true of WW1 records, it sadly no longer is. They were sold off.
And importantly ALL records post 1921 are STILL with the MOD only. They are migrating to the National Archives and ultimately digitisation, but you still have to go through Kentigern House atm.

Forces War Records is sadly a waste of time and money. They have nothing which is not either free and in the public domain, or on ancestry or FindMyPast....Avoid

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/request-records-of-deceased-service-personnel
Scrimnet, My comment about the Coldstream was based on this section contained in the TNA research Guide:
Quote
Service records of Guards regiments

The Coldstream Guards and Scots Guards regiments retain their own records. To access them write to or call the appropriate regimental headquarters.

For Grenadier, Irish and Welsh Guards service records visit the GOV.UK website.

Some of these records were destroyed by enemy bombing of the Guards chapel during the Second World War.
My understanding is that although the service records are with the MOD, the Guards hold quite a lot of unit level nominal rolls and other documentation which may be of help in identifying if Zoe's grandad was in the Coldstream Guards.

On your second point, I was not suggesting that she looks at FWR. The links are to WW2Talk with which I'm sure you are familiar and will acknowledge is an excellent forum.

As for FWR, its a general warning to the OP
One more charge and then be dumb,
            When the forts of Folly fall,
        May the victors when they come
            Find my body near the wall.


Offline cath151

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Re: Can anyone help me identify which of the forces my grandad was in?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 29 April 23 18:12 BST (UK) »
Hi
Newspaper report is available at British Newspaper Archives, also Findmypast.
Here is link to National archives, first report.
I think if you register free you can get 3 free pages (may have changed)

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results?basicsearch=thomas%20george%20tebbutt&retrievecountrycounts=false

Any trouble, let me know :)
Cathy

This was in 1933,  i guess its possible he could have changed regiment by WW2
Sinnock/Sinnicks...Brighton,Greenwich.
Clements,Coles,Mc Donagh,Rock

Census InformationCrown Copyright from www.national archives.gov.uk

Offline GR2

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Re: Can anyone help me identify which of the forces my grandad was in?
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 29 April 23 23:19 BST (UK) »
Wolverton Express 15-9-1933:

BRIDEGROOM IN MILITARY UNIFORM
   The striking figure of a Grenadier
Guardsman in uniform, as a bridegroom,
attracted considerable interest at a wedding
at Hanslope on Saturday afternoon last.
The Parish Church of St. James held a
large congregation when the Rev. J. Percy
Taylor (Vicar) officiated at the marriage of
Miss Clarice Herbert, the only daughter of
Mr. and Mrs. A. Herbert, of the Half-Way
Houses, Hanslope, and Mr. Thomas George
Tebbutt, the eldest son of Mr. and Mrs. F.
Tebbutt, of 40 Vicarage Road, Old Bradwell.
During the service the hymns "Lead us,
Heavenly Father" and "O Perfect Love"
were sung and the organist rendered
"Here Comes the Bride" as the bride en-
tered the church and Mendelssohn's "Wed-
ding March" after the ceremony.
   The bride, who entered the church upon
the arm of her father, was attired in an
ankle-length dress of ivory satin with veil
and wreath of orange blossom, and white
satin shoes, and carried a shower bouquet
of white carnations and white heather. She
was attended by Miss Eva Hall, Wolverton,
her cousin, Miss Dorothy and Miss Bertha
Tebbutt, sisters of the bridegroom, and
Miss Ivy Whitbread, friend of the bride.
They were all attired in ankle-length dresses
of flowered ninon, two of lemon shade, and
the others of pale green. They wore crin-
oline hats and satin shoes to match dresses
and carried bouquets of scarlet carnations.
Mr. Frank Tebbutt attended his brother as
best man. As the happy couple left the
church the bride was presented with a sil-
ver horseshoe by the bridegroom's mother.
   A reception was afterwards held at the
Hanslope Central School, where fifty guests
assembled. The bridegroom is leaving Eng-
land in the very near future with the 3rd
Battalion of the Grenadier Guards for ser-
vice in Egypt.

Offline zoehutson

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Re: Can anyone help me identify which of the forces my grandad was in?
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 30 April 23 09:08 BST (UK) »
Wolverton Express 15-9-1933:

BRIDEGROOM IN MILITARY UNIFORM
   The striking figure of a Grenadier
Guardsman in uniform, as a bridegroom,
attracted considerable interest at a wedding
at Hanslope on Saturday afternoon last.
The Parish Church of St. James held a
large congregation when the Rev. J. Percy
Taylor (Vicar) officiated at the marriage of
Miss Clarice Herbert, the only daughter of
Mr. and Mrs. A. Herbert, of the Half-Way
Houses, Hanslope, and Mr. Thomas George
Tebbutt, the eldest son of Mr. and Mrs. F.
Tebbutt, of 40 Vicarage Road, Old Bradwell.
During the service the hymns "Lead us,
Heavenly Father" and "O Perfect Love"
were sung and the organist rendered
"Here Comes the Bride" as the bride en-
tered the church and Mendelssohn's "Wed-
ding March" after the ceremony.
   The bride, who entered the church upon
the arm of her father, was attired in an
ankle-length dress of ivory satin with veil
and wreath of orange blossom, and white
satin shoes, and carried a shower bouquet
of white carnations and white heather. She
was attended by Miss Eva Hall, Wolverton,
her cousin, Miss Dorothy and Miss Bertha
Tebbutt, sisters of the bridegroom, and
Miss Ivy Whitbread, friend of the bride.
They were all attired in ankle-length dresses
of flowered ninon, two of lemon shade, and
the others of pale green. They wore crin-
oline hats and satin shoes to match dresses
and carried bouquets of scarlet carnations.
Mr. Frank Tebbutt attended his brother as
best man. As the happy couple left the
church the bride was presented with a sil-
ver horseshoe by the bridegroom's mother.
   A reception was afterwards held at the
Hanslope Central School, where fifty guests
assembled. The bridegroom is leaving Eng-
land in the very near future with the 3rd
Battalion of the Grenadier Guards for ser-
vice in Egypt.

Hi GR2,

Thank you so much for posting the article. It's amazing to have this.