Martin - Carroll Families in Surrey and Woolwich, Kent UK

[Neale1961]

Yes, I found the same thing, but that child was not aged 2, but rather 7 weeks or 7 months.
There is a death registration for him in Bermondsey, age 0

[JulieAE]

OK I will keep looking

[jonw65]

A possible death of William Young born 1840 (though we don't really know if he died young or not!)
YOUNG, WILLIAM       
Age at Death (in years): 1 
GRO Reference: 1841  S Quarter in ST MARY NEWINGTON  Volume 04  Page 207

No burial found 
Can't see anybody resembling him in the area in the 1841 census.

Re the sea record for James Martin. Being ticketed in Shoreham (Sussex), I would think he was probably on a fishing vessel.

[Neale1961]

The William Martin (2 yrs) death in 1837, I think must be the same child baptised R.C. in 1835. Without seeing a burial register, I can’t link him to the John Martin (43 yrs) who died a short while after. I think the only thing to do would be to get the 2 death certificates, in the hope of finding the same address or informant’s name. This would confirm we are looking at the same family.

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 I have been doing a lot of looking, but have been finding it difficult to make progress with this lot.

Since Ann Carroll was named as godmother on the 1835 baptism, we assume that she was either Elizabeth’s sister (unmarried) or sister-in-law (a married woman).
I have spent a long while looking at a few possibilities only to eventually rule them out.

But what about a stepmother??

Below is a possibility. See what you think ….
1841 census St Mary, Newington, Surrey. Kent Street- Royal Kent Court
Ann Carroll 40 born Ireland
Edward Carroll 12 born in county
Dennis Carroll 4 born in county
Matilda Carroll 2 born in county
Plus many more with different surnames –
(Ann Carroll’s relationship to the children is not recorded.)


Here are the  3 children in 1851
1851 census in Southwark St George (lodging house, Queen st)
James Carroll 74, wharf labourer, born St Martins in Fields, Middlesex
Julia Carroll 53, wife born Bantry Ireland, domestic matters (Is this the Ann Carroll in 1841?)
Edward Carroll, 21, son born Southwark, wharf labourer
Dennis Carroll 15, son born Newington
Matilda Carroll 12, daughter born Newington
Margaret Carroll 23 hawker, born Limerick Ireland. (Recorded as wife? Maybe an error and is a daughter?)


The wife Julia seems to be a lot younger and could be a second wife. Could she be “Julia Ann”?
Birth rego for child:
CARROLL, MATILDA       Mother: MACCARTY 
GRO Reference: 1839  M Quarter in ST MARY NEWINGTON  Volume 04  Page 355

Matilda Carroll (age 9) is in the Southwark workhouse in 1848. (Mother Julia also in wk-house at the same time; both recorded as Roman Catholic)
Matilda marries in 1857 Southwark to Charles Johnson. Father recorded as James.

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Then there is this item which may or may not be related to the same James in the above census.

Register of Regimental Service
90th foot soldiers – Serjeants Aug 1807
James CARROL
When made a serjeant - 13 Dec 1801 at Age 28 yrs and 3 months
Size – 5 ft 6 ¼ inches
Born St Pancras, Middlesex

[JulieAE]

Hi Neale1961,

I have just seen your last message and I do believe my Elizabeth Carroll did re-marry Thomas Young, You could be right that Ann may be a step mother, I have had no luck finding anything on Ann Carroll.

I will look into thie information on James Carroll to see what else I can find.

Register of Regimental Service
90th foot soldiers – Serjeants Aug 1807
James CARROL
When made a serjeant - 13 Dec 1801 at Age 28 yrs and 3 months
Size – 5 ft 6 ¼ inches
Born St Pancras, Middlesex

Your help is trult appreciated, Thank you so much

[JulieAE]

Yes, I found the same thing, but that child was not aged 2, but rather 7 weeks or 7 months.
There is a death registration for him in Bermondsey, age 0

Hi Neale1961,

I noticed the marriage of Elizabeth Martin and Thomas Young is at the Parish of St Paul "Bermondsey", do you think this may add to the connection? I am still searching...