Martin - Carroll Families in Surrey and Woolwich, Kent UK

[JulieAE]

James and Maria married in 1860 in Vittoriosa Malta, the first marriage document was a Military Register 2 marriage banns, on it it states the date 20 June 1860 their parents, John Martin and Elizabeth, Angelo Caruana and Pepina (deceased). It also states James is a stoker on the HMS Medina Its also states James born Woolwich and Maria born Malta, British Armed Forces And Overseas Banns And Marriages.

The second marriage document is in Latin, translated in states they married St Lawrence Parish  20 June 1866 Vittoriosa, Malta this document has full name of parents, John Martin and Elizabeth Carroll, Angelo Caruana and Josepha Mamo.

Unfortunately neither have fathers occupation documented on them.

[jonw65]

Catholic baptism at St George Southwark, 15 Nov 1835, connected or not?
Gulielmus Martin
born 4 Aug 1835
son of Joannis + Elizabethae Martin olim Carroll
sponsor Anna Carroll

[JulieAE]

Hi Neale 1961, I thought that was James' family to begin with, but they are from Devon and the children were born in Barnstaple not Woolwich, I spoke to the person who this family belongs to and she agreed this was not my James family, as Devon is a fair distance from Woolwich. James also was a stoker not an engineer. I wish this was easier, I thought maybe the Navy may have had enlistment records, which may have had all his details, but have not been able to find such a document. 

[JulieAE]

Hi jon65, James parents were Anglican, they married in St Mary Parish, Newington, Southwark in Surrey in 1827, then moved to Woolwich in Kent, James was born 2nd February 1832, so I am not sure if that the right connection, but I will look into it, thank you for sharing that information.

[jonw65]

Hi
The marriage would have had to have been in an Anglican church at that time, but perhaps one of James' parents was Catholic? Though I've no idea, of course.

[jonw65]

Something else to investigate?
A marriage at Christ Church Southwark, 29 March 1839
Thomas Young, Of Full age, Widower, Chaff Cutter, residence 4 Brownsell Court, father Thomas Young, Chaff Cutter
+
Elizabeth Martin, Of Full age, Widow, residence 2 Brownsell Court, father James Carroll, Private in the Army

They might have had a son William baptized at St George the Martyr Southwark, 14 June 1840 (born 4 May 1840)?

YOUNG, (Male)       
Mother's Maiden Surname: CARROLL 
GRO Reference: 1840  J Quarter in SAINT GEORGE THE MARTYR SOUTHWARK  Volume 04  Page 391

[JulieAE]

jonw65, thank you very much, I will follow up on this information, I appreciate your help.

[jonw65]

I haven't really got anywhere with the Youngs in 1841.
If it is the same Elizabeth on those baptism records in 1835 and 1840, then presumably William Martin born 4 August 1835 had died.

James was born 2nd February 1832

Where does the 2nd February date come from? Do you know when he died, and the age given?
How reliable is the Woolwich place of birth?

There is a James Martin born 3 Feb 1829 and baptized St George the Martyr, Southwark, 25 Feb 1829.
Parents John and Elizabeth, abode Kent Street, father a Labourer.

The same couple may then have gone on to have a daughter Maria, born 18 Jan 1831, who was baptized at St Mary Newington, 16 Feb 1831 (Kent Street, father Labourer)
I would imagine though that there were a few John and Elizabeth Martins about.

The one navy record I can see that might be your man,  UK, Naval Officer and Rating Service Records, 1802-1919, on ancestry

quote from records - his ship
Occupation - HMS Medina
James was a stoker (a fireman) in the Navy on the HMS Medina

James Martin   
Served on the Medina from 8 May 1854 (age 22) to 24 January 1859
Again from 25 Jan 1859 to 11 March 1861
Then on the Alacrity, 1861-63 (later rating on there "Musician")
On to the Phoebe, 1863-66, Victoria, 1866, finally the Royal Oak, 29 Sep 1866 to 7 May 1867 (Painter 1st Class on all those)

If him, what was he doing before 1854? Was he not in the Royal Navy?
Could James have been in the merchant service?

Incidentally, there is James Martin, born 1830, St George, Surrey, in the merchant seamen's records (BT113)
But I don't have access to this at the moment, so I can't say if it might be relevant to anything.

[JulieAE]

Hi jonw65,

I have my grandfathers 1941 diary and in it he has written his great grandfather James Martin's date of birth 2/2/1832 Woolwich, Kent also on my great grandmother Josephine Martin (born Devisian and Alfred's wife) on her death certificate it has the family are British subject as James was born in Woolwich, Kent.

I was thinking maybe Elizabeth Carroll came from Surrey and John came from Woolwich and they got married in St Mary, Newington as it may have been Elizabeth's home town, as I was told when couples married it was in the brides home town. The record you have of James being in the Royal Navy are correct.

That is a good question what was he doing before? I thought if I found census records I might be able to find more but have not found anything yet. Do you think maybe his father John Martin may also have been in the Navy and that is why James was in the Navy?

Is there a way to see just Woolwich census records, because when I put in Woolwich it comes up with other areas and if I put exact Woolwich it comes up with nothing? I have Elizabeth Carroll's parents as William Carroll and Charlotte Sendall, not sure if that helps.

Thank you so much for helping.