Author Topic: Name Switching?  (Read 368 times)

Offline Taylor94

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Name Switching?
« on: Thursday 04 May 23 10:20 BST (UK) »
I have posted about this family before but I'm still confused about a change of name, which I cant seem to see why it has happened. There also seems to be a switching round of names on baptism records/marriage? or just a clerk error?

I have Jessica Barsby who marries Henry Manship 1839 Leicester St Margarets. Jessica states her father is 'John Barsby, Bracemaker'. Jessica states she is of Kent Street. Of full age, census gives her as born 1819 Leicester. Everything seems in order here, but there is no baptism for her. Her children's GRO records give her maiden name as Barsby.

It appears that Jessica has 3 other siblings and they are all actually baptised as Sharp and not Barsby.

Thomas Whittingham Sharp, baptised 1815, son of John Sharp and Mary, of Belgrave Gate, Leicester. John is a Framework Knitter.
Jane Sharp, baptised 1817, daughter of John Sharp and Mary, of Belgrave Gate, Leicester. John is a Framework Knitter.
Jessica Sharp, baptised 1819, daughter of John Sharp and Mary, of Belgrave Gate, Leicester. John is a Framework Knitter.
Another brother Rowland born c1824, No baptism has been found for him.
The only marriage I can find fitting all of this and connecting with the name changes is -
16 Aug 1815, Leicester St Margarets, John Barsby, Bachelor, of this parish and Mary Sharp, Spinster, of this parish. (Just to note, there appears to be no following baptisms under the name Barsby with parents as John and Mary)
Why have they seemingly baptised under Sharp if they were married as Barsby (Being the husbands name and why have the children reverted back?

In 1841, Rowland and Jane are still listed as 'Sharp' and are living with a 'John Whittingham Sharp' who is a bracemaker. I originally thought this was the father of these children but I now think he is the Uncle. Brother of their mother Mary Sharp. This John Whittingham Sharp was born 1789 Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire. He married Elizabeth Kellett in 1827 Leicester, but he is listed as a bachelor and not a widower (Which lead me to think he was not their father).

The first child Thomas Whittingham Sharp, b1815, next appears to marry in 1833 Leicester, to Hannah Hurst, but this time he is listed as 'Thomas Sharpe Barsby'.
Jane, b1817, next appears on the 1841 census living with John Whittingham Sharp, Rowland, and Johns other children and wife. I cant find her in 1851. In 1861 Jane is an unmarried cotton winder living in blackfriars, but this time she is given as 'Jane Sharp Barsby'. She dies 1853 Leicester St Margarets.

Jessica, b1819, marries Henry Manship as Jessica Barsby.

Rowland, b c1824, listed in 1841 as 'Rowland Sharp'. Marries in 1844 to Priscilla Eastwood. Listed as Rowland Sharp but lists his father as 'Dead', no name or occupation of father. (John Whittingham Sharp is still alive at this moment, So I don't think he is the father). Listed in the Leicester Chronicle in 1846 as 'Rowland Sharp Barsby'. Rowland then moves to Leeds, Yorkshire, where he is listed in census as 'Rowland Barsby'. On Rowlands 2nd marriage in 1873, he now gives his father as 'John Barsby'.

So we have all children baptised as Sharp but then changing to Barsby when they are older but retaining Sharp as a middle name.
I beleive their parents John and Mary die when the children are young and they then live with their uncle John W Sharp.
I think I have the parents burials but once again Im not sure if the switching of surnames as happened.
A Mary Barsby, dies 1825 St Margarets, wife of John Barsby. Aged 42, b c1783. There is also another burial for a Mary Barsby in 1826.
A John Barsby, dies in 1827 St Martins Leicester. aged 41, b c1786.

Going by the marriage of John Barsby to Mary Sharp and that the first child Thomas has the middle name of Whittingham. I think Mary is bapt 1791 Melton Mowbray. Daughter of Joseph Sharp and Elizabeth Whittingham. With John W Sharp bapt 1789. Parents die and then children live with uncle?
I'm just confused as to why they were possibly baptised under Sharp? A continuous clerk error? or they purposely said their name was Sharp even though married as Barsby? The children all revert to Barsby when they are adults and the ones who do list their father list him as 'John Barsby' not John Sharp.
Richard Dudley of Cosby. Gent
George Bent of Cosby. Gent
William Black of Kilby. Gent
Bernard Cotton of Dadlington. Esq
Sir Thomas Halford of Wistow. Bart
Richard Swynfen of Sutton Cheney. Gent
John Cotes of Aylestone. Gent
John Freeston of East Norton. Gent
Sir John Bernard of Abington.
Edward Shuckburgh of Naseby. Esq
Richard Worsley of Deeping. Esq
Thomas Hobson of Glen. Gent
John Grant of Stretton Parva. Gent
John Miles of Heanley Hall. Gent
Thomas Dabridgecourt. Esq
Sir Clement Edmondes

Offline willsy

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Re: Name Switching?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 06 May 23 21:29 BST (UK) »
I think this is Jane 1851 as Jane Shape

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGFG-R3M
Willsy

Ward, Newark (Nottingham), Leicester, Scarborough
Warren, Northampton, Leicester
Moore, Leicestershire
Hunt, Leicestershire
Kirkman, Leicestershire
Hurst, Leicester, Stowmarket
Kendrick, Leicestershire
Eld, Leicestershire
Essex Edey/Eady Elsden/Elsdon

Census Transcriptions are Crown Copyright from National Archives

Offline willsy

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Re: Name Switching?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 06 May 23 21:49 BST (UK) »
Jane died 1870 and is buried with her sister at Welford Road

In the same plot

uR 631
Jessica Manship 5 Jul 1863 age 44 Alma Cottages Sanvey Gate
Henry Manship 17 Feb 1867 age 66 Alexander Street
Henry Manship 3 May 1868 age 5mths Northgate Street
Jane Sharpe 24 Jul 1870 age 52 Old Mill Lane

Death Q3 is registered as Jane Sharpe



Willsy

Ward, Newark (Nottingham), Leicester, Scarborough
Warren, Northampton, Leicester
Moore, Leicestershire
Hunt, Leicestershire
Kirkman, Leicestershire
Hurst, Leicester, Stowmarket
Kendrick, Leicestershire
Eld, Leicestershire
Essex Edey/Eady Elsden/Elsdon

Census Transcriptions are Crown Copyright from National Archives

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: Name Switching?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 06 May 23 22:26 BST (UK) »
<Rowland, b c1824, listed in 1841 as 'Rowland Sharp'. Marries in 1844 to Priscilla Eastwood. Listed as Rowland Sharp but lists his father as 'Dead', no name or occupation of father. (John Whittingham Sharp is still alive at this moment, So I don't think he is the father). Listed in the Leicester Chronicle in 1846 as 'Rowland Sharp Barsby'. Rowland then moves to Leeds, Yorkshire, where he is listed in census as 'Rowland Barsby'. On Rowlands 2nd marriage in 1873, he now gives his father as 'John Barsby'...>

FreeBMD have Rowland as Barsby for his first marriage!



Online mckha489

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Re: Name Switching?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 06 May 23 22:51 BST (UK) »
<Rowland, b c1824, listed in 1841 as 'Rowland Sharp'. Marries in 1844 to Priscilla Eastwood. Listed as Rowland Sharp but lists his father as 'Dead', no name or occupation of father. (John Whittingham Sharp is still alive at this moment, So I don't think he is the father). Listed in the Leicester Chronicle in 1846 as 'Rowland Sharp Barsby'. Rowland then moves to Leeds, Yorkshire, where he is listed in census as 'Rowland Barsby'. On Rowlands 2nd marriage in 1873, he now gives his father as 'John Barsby'...>

FreeBMD have Rowland as Barsby for his first marriage!

Image is on FindMyPast.   He is Barsby
And a witness is Jane Barsby (her mark)


If their parents died young, and they were brought up by their Sharp uncle, wouldn’t that explain why they tended to switch between the two surnames?

Offline Taylor94

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Re: Name Switching?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 07 May 23 05:56 BST (UK) »
I think I had just misspelt on his marriage, for some reason I thought he was still under Sharp.

That was my thinking. They are using Sharp whilst being brought up by their uncle. My intrigue though is why are they all baptised as Sharp at all? Their parents appear to have married, Their father was John Barsby, the parents appear to die under the name Barsby and the children also revert to Barsby as adults. I wonder what the reason was for the baptisms being under Sharp.
Richard Dudley of Cosby. Gent
George Bent of Cosby. Gent
William Black of Kilby. Gent
Bernard Cotton of Dadlington. Esq
Sir Thomas Halford of Wistow. Bart
Richard Swynfen of Sutton Cheney. Gent
John Cotes of Aylestone. Gent
John Freeston of East Norton. Gent
Sir John Bernard of Abington.
Edward Shuckburgh of Naseby. Esq
Richard Worsley of Deeping. Esq
Thomas Hobson of Glen. Gent
John Grant of Stretton Parva. Gent
John Miles of Heanley Hall. Gent
Thomas Dabridgecourt. Esq
Sir Clement Edmondes

Offline Taylor94

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Re: Name Switching?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 07 May 23 05:58 BST (UK) »
I think this is Jane 1851 as Jane Shape

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGFG-R3M

That appears to be her, thanks Willsy.
Richard Dudley of Cosby. Gent
George Bent of Cosby. Gent
William Black of Kilby. Gent
Bernard Cotton of Dadlington. Esq
Sir Thomas Halford of Wistow. Bart
Richard Swynfen of Sutton Cheney. Gent
John Cotes of Aylestone. Gent
John Freeston of East Norton. Gent
Sir John Bernard of Abington.
Edward Shuckburgh of Naseby. Esq
Richard Worsley of Deeping. Esq
Thomas Hobson of Glen. Gent
John Grant of Stretton Parva. Gent
John Miles of Heanley Hall. Gent
Thomas Dabridgecourt. Esq
Sir Clement Edmondes

Online amondg

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Re: Name Switching?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 07 May 23 08:37 BST (UK) »
Possibility

John was born John Sharp illegitimate whose mother later married Barbsy or vice versa

so they were known under both surnames